The Case for Progressive Taxation

[SassySue]

I want to start a discussion about progressive taxation. I also have a question. How in the world is the national deficit supposed to be paid down without it? I, for one, would like say that if I earned $300,000 per year, I would gladly pay up to 30 percent of my annual income in taxes, if that was what I actually owed in taxes after all deductions for social security, etc. I have absolutely no problem with it! Note this excerpt from Wikipedia about progressive tax:

Progressive taxation has a direct effect on reducing income inequality.[13] This is especially true if taxation is used to fund progressive government spending such as transfer payments and social safety nets.[12] However, the effect may be muted if the higher rates cause increased tax evasion.[13][24] When income inequality is low, aggregate demand will be relatively high, because more people who want ordinary consumer goods and services will be able to afford them, while the labor force will not be as relatively monopolized by the wealthy.[25][26] High levels of income inequality can have negative effects on long-term economic growth, employment, and class conflict.[27][28] Progressive taxation is often suggested as a way to mitigate the societal ills associated with higher income inequality.[12] The difference between the Gini index for an income distribution before taxation and the Gini index after taxation is an indicator for the effects of such taxation.[29]


Note how it has a direct impact on income inequality and the rest of the economy. It's easy to see why the gap between the rich and the poor has grown so astronomically over the decades, especially since the tax code has been consistently altered to suit the multi-national corporations and banking interests, as well as the super rich who hardly pay any income tax at all (percentage wise). The taxes on capital gains have also been cut, as well as taxes on investment income. If we actually went back to a much simpler tax code or more progressive one, the deficit would go down, the gap between the rich and poor would level out, and the economy would strengthen. I just cannot understand why these large multi-national corporations are getting away without paying any income tax on their enormous profits. Also, Bank of America and companies like Verizon. Do you honestly think it's fair? Be honest.

[gfejunkie]

30%??? LMAO!!! Good luck with that shit! Only if you have a damned good accountant named "Lefty" or something.
Grow the fuck up and become an adult.

You are aware that over 50% of Americans pay no income tax at all, aren't you. Why don't you go hit them up?
They're easy to find. They're in the bottom 70% of earners.

[SassySue]

Originally Posted by gfejunkie

30%??? LMAO!!! Good luck with that shit! Only if you have a damned good accountant named "Lefty" or something.
Grow the fuck up and become an adult.

I'm quite grown up and if you don't like my posts, then just ignore them. Lots of people are actually in favor of progressive taxation. You might as well quit trying to upset me because it's not working.

[Revenant]

Originally Posted by SassySue

I want to start a discussion about progressive taxation. I also have a question. How in the world is the national deficit supposed to be paid down without it? I, for one, would like say that if I earned $300,000 per year, I would gladly pay up to 30 percent of my annual income in taxes, if that was what I actually owed in taxes after all deductions for social security, etc. I have absolutely no problem with it! Note this excerpt from Wikipedia about progressive tax:

Progressive taxation has a direct effect on reducing income inequality.[13] This is especially true if taxation is used to fund progressive government spending such as transfer payments and social safety nets.[12] However, the effect may be muted if the higher rates cause increased tax evasion.[13][24] When income inequality is low, aggregate demand will be relatively high, because more people who want ordinary consumer goods and services will be able to afford them, while the labor force will not be as relatively monopolized by the wealthy.[25][26] High levels of income inequality can have negative effects on long-term economic growth, employment, and class conflict.[27][28] Progressive taxation is often suggested as a way to mitigate the societal ills associated with higher income inequality.[12] The difference between the Gini index for an income distribution before taxation and the Gini index after taxation is an indicator for the effects of such taxation.[29]


Note how it has a direct impact on income inequality and the rest of the economy. It's easy to see why the gap between the rich and the poor has grown so astronomically over the decades, especially since the tax code has been consistently altered to suit the multi-national corporations and banking interests, as well as the super rich who hardly pay any income tax at all (percentage wise). The taxes on capital gains have also been cut, as well as taxes on investment income. If we actually went back to a much simpler tax code or more progressive one, the deficit would go down, the gap between the rich and poor would level out, and the economy would strengthen. I just cannot understand why these large multi-national corporations are getting away without paying any income tax on their enormous profits. Also, Bank of America and companies like Verizon. Do you honestly think it's fair? Be honest.

Really? UP TO 30%?

If that was the top rate, there wouldn't even be a discussion about tax rates. Unfortunately, most progressive proposals don't stop at 30%. They frequently propose rates in the 45-60% range for high-income earners. And that is just the federal bite.

Most folks, including fiscal-minded, small government conservatives, don't car so much about progressively increasing rates (as opposed to a flat tax rate). What worries people is the rates on upper incomes. Most well off folks aren't going to balk at 30% if the money wasn't being squandered. But when the liberals start talking about taking half or better, opposition flares.

[TheDaliLama]

30% = $90,000.00

I guess that easy for you to say when you're a thief.

BTW....you are NOT ENTITLED TO SOMEONES ELSE'S MONEY!

EVER!


And also Sassy, There more people against a progressive tax than there are are for it.

NEXT!

[gfejunkie]

Originally Posted by SassySue

I'm quite grown up and if you don't like my posts, then just ignore them. Lots of people are actually in favor of progressive taxation. You might as well quit trying to upset me because it's not working.

Well, don't get all butt hurt about it. I'm just showing you the folly of your feeble mind.

Learn from it.

BTW, you left out the important part of my quote. The learning part...

Originally Posted by gfejunkie

You are aware that over 50% of Americans pay no income tax at all, aren't you. Why don't you go hit them up?
They're easy to find. They're in the bottom 70% of earners.

[Tiny]

The USA already has the most progressive tax system of any developed country in the world. Google something like OECD and progressive tax and you'll see I'm right. You don't know as much as you think you do about taxes on multinational corporations. Some corporations do pay at low tax rates. The marginal corporate rate in the USA however is the highest in the developed world, and some U.S. corporations are greatly handicapped versus foreign competitors because of high taxes and very burdensome and illogical tax regulations. The system encourages U.S. corporations to keep cash overseas because if they bring overseas profits back to the USA to invest here, in ways that would create jobs, they pay high taxes on the repatriated funds.

You say "The taxes on capital gains have also been cut, as well as taxes on investment income." What a load of crap. Obama has taken taxes on interest income and short term capital gains from 35% to 43.4%. And taxes on long term capital gains and dividends from 15% to 23.8%. And these numbers don't include state income tax, which can add 10+ percentage points in places like California and New York.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SassySue

I'm quite grown up and if you don't like my posts, then just ignore them. Lots of people are actually in favor of progressive taxation. You might as well quit trying to upset me because it's not working.

Suggest you remove yourself to a forum filled with said like minded people and keep passing around your fairy dust.

[SassySue]

Originally Posted by Tiny

The USA already has the most progressive tax system of any developed country in the world. Google something like OECD and progressive tax and you'll see I'm right. You don't know as much as you think you do about taxes on multinational corporations. Some corporations do pay at low tax rates. The marginal corporate rate in the USA however is the highest in the developed world, and some U.S. corporations are greatly handicapped versus foreign competitors because of high taxes and very burdensome and illogical tax regulations. The system encourages U.S. corporations to keep cash overseas because if they bring overseas profits back to the USA to invest here, in ways that would create jobs, they pay high taxes on the repatriated funds.

You say "The taxes on capital gains have also been cut, as well as taxes on investment income." What a load of crap. Obama has taken taxes on interest income and short term capital gains from 35% to 43.4%. And taxes on long term capital gains and dividends from 15% to 23.8%. And these numbers don't include state income tax, which can add 10+ percentage points in places like California and New York.

Did you see you this article? What about the fact that GE paid zero in income tax on enormous profits and then received a return of millions of dollars on top of that. This is a fact.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2016/06/tw...te-the-racket/

What about the enormous wages that CEOs make in comparison to their employees and the penniless wages they pay to overseas workers?

Progressive tax is calculated percentage wise (in other words, according to the amount). The more a person makes, the higher the amount. You didn't tell me the amount of the capital gains, so I have no idea why the tax rate was that high. Same thing for the dividends amount. In other words, if I make $2 million, the rate would be higher percentage wise. I'm sure there is a cap at one point, but I don't know what it is. The thing that really infuriates me is the above article and the fact that corporations like GE paid zero dollars in income tax and made enormous profits. They even received a return of at least a million or so. I saw the article on another board, but don't have it on hand right now. It's actually true. I don't understand why this practice is even legal.

Those are the taxes I'm really concerned with. Maybe Clinton can ease the taxes a little more on higher income people, but cut out loopholes for these multi-national corporations. That would really help with national deficit and build up our safety net at the same time. Here is a list of those corporations that I mentioned, the worst offenders:

https://berniesanders.com/wp-content...ateDodgers.pdf

[Rey Lengua]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Suggest you remove yourself to a forum filled with said like minded people and keep passing around your fairy dust.

The Huffpo site or any Babblin Bernie Sanders web page should be a good " home " for her and her " progressive " BS.

[Guest123018-4]

Deduction for social security? Nope there isn't one.
If you own your own business you get stuck with both sides of the contribution which is almost 15%.
Sure you only pay that on the first hundred thousand or so but that tax is not dedcted from your income. Oh and if you are lucky enough to survive till you can finally start taking your SS payments, you get taxed again on the money you have been taxed on. I know it is actually an insurance payment, the only insurance benfit thaqt is taxed at all.
You get taxed on top of taxed on top of taxed. You get taxed when you spend the money you haved paid tax on..

The problem isn't the tax rate but that our government is inefficient, bloated, does things they are not required to do and I could go on and on.

The problem isn't taxes, it is the government. It is too big and taxes are too high. Reduce the size of government and stop doing all of the unconstitutional shit and get back to the basics.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

30% = $90,000.00

no it doesn't.. the 30% is a marginal rate, not an average rate..

Originally Posted by The2Dogs

Deduction for social security? Nope there isn't one.

there is not, but there sort of is, too.. but it's not a deduction, it's a credit.

the EITC, the Earned Income Tax credit, was designed to give back some or all of the social security/medicare taxes paid by individuals who work, and earn annual amounts within specific income ranges. sort of a decrease in marginal tax rates in reverse, the lower your income, the higher your credit (to a point).

I'm for progressivity, but forget about it impacting the National Debt. the answer to that, so far, has been flooding the system with liquidity which keeps interest rates extremely low (or negative, as a few Countries have seen).. that keeps the growing debt "manageable" until the house of cards finally explodes.. consider that the unfunded mandates is much higher than the debt itself, the only solution is biblical, or Jeffersonian.. the system must wash out all the debt, start over, and many debt holders will go unpaid.. which is not as catastrophic as it seems.. much of the debt is owed to ourselves, and is simply an accounting entry.. no real money exchanged hands.. think of the money multiplier effect, where the banking system can lend about 25 times the actual cash on hand, and you see this debt is not "real".. it couldn't be.. $19 trillion dollars? not real at all.

[SassySue]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

no it doesn't.. the 30% is a marginal rate, not an average rate..


there is not, but there sort of is, too.. but it's not a deduction, it's a credit.

the EITC, the Earned Income Tax credit, was designed to give back some or all of the social security/medicare taxes paid by individuals who work, and earn annual amounts within specific income ranges. sort of a decrease in marginal tax rates in reverse, the lower your income, the higher your credit (to a point).

I'm for progressivity, but forget about it impacting the National Debt. the answer to that, so far, has been flooding the system with liquidity which keeps interest rates extremely low (or negative, as a few Countries have seen).. that keeps the growing debt "manageable" until the house of cards finally explodes.. consider that the unfunded mandates is much higher than the debt itself, the only solution is biblical, or Jeffersonian.. the system must wash out all the debt, start over, and many debt holders will go unpaid.. which is not as catastrophic as it seems.. much of the debt is owed to ourselves, and is simply an accounting entry.. no real money exchanged hands.. think of the money multiplier effect, where the banking system can lend about 25 times the actual cash on hand, and you see this debt is not "real".. it couldn't be.. $19 trillion dollars? not real at all.

Don't really understand your post completely, but thank you for commenting in a pleasant way. I appreciate it. I cannot understand why more people are not concerned about these multi-national corporations not paying any tax. Do you think it should be legal? How can they get away with it? It would at least impact the deficit in some way if they paid taxes on their enormous profits. What about all the jobs they send overseas? It doesn't have anything to do with taxes, but it sure hurts our economy.

[TheDaliLama]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

no it doesn't.. the 30% is a marginal rate, not an average rate..

Oh.....let me check my math again. She said if she earned $300, 000 a year that she would gladly pay 30% of her income to taxes. If she wants to pay 30% she can do that no matter what the average rate is.

NEXT!

[gfejunkie]

America already has the highest corporate tax rate in the world. How many more jobs do you want to ship overseas?