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Old 01-25-2014, 10:28 AM   #1
DDBD Photography
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Exclamation Showcase Photographers and those that aspire to be

Ok in light of the recent issues regarding shooting providers I figured it's time to have some general guidelines or a primer of sorts posted so those that are not experienced in this genre can have some guidance. For those that don't know me I have over 20 years of both being a professional published real world photographer as well as shooting with providers, exotic dancers, strip clubs, etc. so I'll give you some of how I do it and I welcome input from some of the other established photographers to chime in with their knowledge and experience also.

This is NOT Modelmayhem

First off, this is not modelmayhem. I will reference that site because most newbie photographers and hobbyist photographers seem to love it. There are distinct differences between shooting showcases and shooting models.

Photographers Advertising and Setting Expectations

For many of us photography is our business and we shoot different genres including sexy, glam, erotic, etc. but let's be honest in advertising. I have shot countless models over the going on 27 years behind the camera - damn I feel old - anyways, my model shoots also have a makeup artist, sometimes lighting assistants, preplanned locations and wardrobe and the budgets are much much higher than what I charge for showcase shoots. I do not take away from the photographic quality of my images regardless of who I shoot with or what the shoot is for but let's be real, ladies if you pay me $1000 for a shoot you're getting more from that shoot than if you pay me $100. I can't pay a makeup artist, pull wardrobe, etc. on a $100 budget - and before you start lining up for those $100 shoots - don't cause D don't play that...lol.

Photographers, it's simple, use whatever images you have to advertise to get started but be honest and set the true expectation for what your client is to expect. With the exception of a few photos I've used in my threads here on eccie, all of the images are from showcase shoots with providers - two were from exotic dancers and one is from a model friend. I use showcase shoots to advertise for showcase shoots so you know what to expect when you shoot with me.

It's simple fellas (and ladies - Hi Leo and Megan ) truth in advertising goes a long way. Honestly fellas, look at Leo and Megan - they, use the right subjects for the right marketing campaigns.

Shooting but not showing faces

One difference that may seem minor but is a major one when shooting is faceless photos. When shooting models you want to capture expressions, the eyes are often the soul of the image. When shooting providers you know that most will blur their face or you will just crop the shot so you don't convey their expressions but trust me EVERY provider you shoot will first look at their facial expression when they review the images and even if they will not show their face that can make or break the image in their minds. They may have plans to show the images to a ATF client or a client may have paid for the shoot and wants a few special images and you may not know that so no matter what you think she may think of her face in the images try to get them to be expressive - trust me - they will appreciate your efforts. Also focus on her smile makes a ton of difference in the photos. I shoot many women who won't show their face but they showcase their smiles so always capture a few of those lovely smiling faces.

Free/Trade/TFP/TFCD/WTF Ever

Ok this seems to be a hot one. Let's face it in this business the trade shoot will come up and is often accepted. Trades in modeling are different - you are not trading for a physical encounter - it's generally "I, the photographer, will shoot you and I will review the images and I will pick a few that I feel are outstanding and send you between 2 - 5, maybe 10, of those images and I will allow you to use them for your advertising and marketing as long as you don't sell the images". Well that works for models but here it's "I'll shoot you and make your showcase sparkle and you give me an hour or two of your time as compensation" and that's where many problems come from. Notice I did not say anything about delivering the photos because so often once that trade is completed on the physical front then those photos are put on the back burner.

I don't do trades. I've had different photographers ask me about it and the answer is simple - I keep it professional. This is a BUSINESS and she is in BUSINESS and if there is a mutual attraction between you two that's fine just complete BUSINESS first. Someone will almost always feel slighted in this trade for pics arrangement and it's usually the provider. I hear stories all the time about how she has shot with someone and they did a trade and now it's months later and she still has no photos. That type of reputation will not only damage your business with providers but gets out about you it will damage your business in general.

The reality is there are a lot of providers who don't want to pay for photos and they know some guys will jump to shoot them for a roll in the studio hay but both parties should stop and ask themselves is it really worth it. If you agree to do a trade then make sure as the photographer you stick to your end of the deal. Deliver the proofs in a reasonable time and then when she picks her selections make your edits and deliver in a reasonable time.

Now if you offer a trade for photos only and a provider accepts that agreement don't be that creepy guy that then turns or attempts to turn it into another type of trade - she has in her mind what she's gonna do and if you push the issue, well, she might just push your ass out the studio window...lol...ok seriously, don't push them into feeling like they are in a corner because you never know who and how many people they know and what damage that will have on your business.

Paid Shoots


Ok ladies you want to be paid for your time, you don't like to be negotiated off your rate, you feel that you will give the level of service that warrants what you charge - guess what - we do too. Everyone has rates and if you want to shoot with someone then respect their rates as much as you would want them to respect your rates if they called you for an appointment. Nuff said on that one.

Length of shoots

Ok this one can be tricky but always...no no...ALWAYS keep in mind that time is money and money is time. My shoots vary from an hour or so to multiple hours. I am always aware of the time and I always remind who I'm shooting with of our time. My shoots are fun, lighthearted, and we typically laugh a lot - ok some may say we laugh more than we shoot - but that's just me. Now with models sometimes you can go over on shoots and it's ok but in this business you have to be aware of how long you are taking that provider away from making her money and in some cases, whether you know or don't know, who else her time away from making money can affect. Unless you both agree ahead of time on a 8 hour shooting frenzy don't spring that on her. Even if she's paying you to shoot 10 outfits she's expecting to be out of there in at most 3 hours and once that time frame has hit the mood of the shoot will change. Yes, we love to shoot, and if we're getting great stuff then we'll want to keep shooting but you're shooting yourself in the foot if you think she's happy and have not asked her if continuing to shoot is ok. Be aware and be professional about time management and be understanding of the fact that they cannot stay and shoot all night with you - get 'em in and get 'er dun.

Be RESPECTFUL

Ok you would think this needs to go without saying but for goodness sakes be respectful of your clients - regardless of what they do and what you read in their reviews she's a person and she's your client. Now every woman that has shot with me knows that I'm a flirt but I am always respectful. I hear way too many stories about how so and so treated the provider like she was there as a provider and not as his subject to shoot and trust me, if they tell me they are definitely telling other girls. I don't care who you are shooting - if you can't see the person you are shooting in a professional manner then you are not in the right business. Yes that deserved a bold.

Shoot Planning

Let's be honest with many - probably most - showcases shoots there is no planning. They contact you, request to shoot, pay deposit, show up with some outfits, and that's the planning. Honestly, take some time to plan your shoots, discuss wardrobe, colors, etc. Treat the shoot like a shoot and you will be much happier with the end results.

Ok now ladies this one is for you. When you know you have a shoot, you want to be your best so try to refrain - and I'll leave it at that. If you show up "unrefrained" then it will have an affect on the images and chances are you will not be as happy as you would have been had you refrained. This goes with planning because no one plans to have a horrible shoot but there are things beyond the photographer's control that can lead to a horrible shoot.

Number of Images

Ok ladies this is for you. We shoot - there is no guaranteed number of images. Some shoots will turn out hundreds of images and some will not but think about it, would you rather have a successful shoot with say 200 images taken and have a hard time choosing between those 200 or would you want 2000 images taken and can't find 2 that you like out of the 2000. The number of images taken is not an indicator of how professional the photographer is. Honestly I did a shoot last week where I did 2 outfits and we only had time to squeeze in 130 shots of those two outfits and she likes 120 of the 130. I like that ratio much better than if I would have shot 1300 of her and she could not find 100 she liked. Ladies look at the quality of the images not the quantity and if the quality is to your liking then, in my best southern drawl, there ya go.

Delivering your product

It's simple. Just Do It. Again, this should not have to be said but in our world it does. Now I am a firm believer in things happen. In life you have last minute things that will screw up your plans more often than not but we do have a word that tells us exactly what we should do....crap...it's right on the tip of my tongue...umm...oh yeah...COMMUNICATION. It's simple, if there is a delay in delivering proofs or edits then communicate. If there is a delay in arriving at the shoot then communicate. If there is a delay in whatever, it's simple, communicate. It can stop an easy situation from being a horribly difficult one. Now once you've communicated then stick to what you said.

Ownership/Usage/Agreements/Releases/Etc.

This is one topic that will be discussed forever. Ok I'll start with the simple. The artist owns the image, the subject can use the image and if it were that simple life would be awesome. We sign releases, etc. all the time but in this business because of discretion and also often unknown items like management agreements can be a sticky situation. I'll say this - whatever you do or don't do - stick to what you say you'll do and again use that C word - no not that one or that one...COMMUNICATION...yeah yeah that one.

NCNS

Ok now this one I'll simply say if you no call/no show me and don't contact me to let me know what's up then don't bother contacting me again. Plain and simple. Ladies, if you get nc/ns'd by a client and he does not even bother to contact you to apologize then you're pissed and you'll tell all the other ladies how he wasted your time. Well guess what, we talk also - more than you all know - and if you screw me on a shoot then I'll definitely let other photographers know not to take out of their busy schedules, pull away from their family time to go and setup lights and get their studios setup just to sit there and have their time wasted by someone with so little regard for being professional that they can't send a text message and say sorry I can't make it. Whew - yeah it happens to all of us but that's why we take deposits.

In Summation

Ok there is sooooo much more but I got a shoot to get to so if I've missed anything I ask the other professionals with showcase experience to chime in. If there is something you want to have discussed in more detail feel free to ask. I want this to be an open discussion so we can clear up misconceptions and all have happier and more successful showcase shoot encounters.
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:02 PM   #2
john_deere
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outstanding, as expected.

i'll only add a little right now with respect to legal stuff.

in real world commercial photography, i have 3 things that have to be taken care of if the subject of the photos is people:

model release
license agreement
contract

the model release states that the model relinquishes all right to privacy or profit from the images. that means the photographer can do anything they want with them, and the model has no claim on profits and can't sue if she sees herself on the side of a downtown bus.

the license agreement states how a client or other party may use images. this covers everything from printing on billboards to coffee cups. i might shoot images for a client who will use them in magazine ads, and the agreement will state for what time period, number of issues, etc. it can be very detailed. that client may or may not want to allow me to use those images in my own advertising. sometimes images may be licensed multiple times to multiple parties. i had one that went to a magazine for a special edition and then was later bought by an energy drink company for in-store advertising. THE OWNERSHIP OF THE IMAGES BY THE PHOTOGRAPHER NEVER CHANGES, ONLY THE PERMISSIONS FOR HOW IMAGES WILL BE USED.

the contract simply states the scope of work, delivery, etc.

now, there are 2 things (at least) about escort photography that are odd…

1. the CLIENT and the MODEL are the same person, at least if she's an indy.
2. the client/model may not be willing to sign any documents with their real name.

regardless, any truly professional shooter should a least discuss these things with you, girls, and give you the option to sign or not.

if nothing is documented, then all either of you have is your word and your reputation.

therefor, it's in the best interest of both parties to discuss all this up front. i may not expect a girl to sign a contract, but i still put ALL the things she needs to know in writing at some point, and i goddamn well stick to it.

playing the escort game is a matter of trust. so is photographing them.

__________________
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:09 PM   #3
Megan Love
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDBD Photography View Post
Ok in light of the recent issues regarding shooting providers I figured it's time to have some general guidelines or a primer of sorts posted so those that are not experienced in this genre can have some guidance. For those that don't know me I have over 20 years of both being a professional published real world photographer as well as shooting with providers, exotic dancers, strip clubs, etc. so I'll give you some of how I do it and I welcome input from some of the other established photographers to chime in with their knowledge and experience also.

This is NOT Modelmayhem

First off, this is not modelmayhem. I will reference that site because most newbie photographers and hobbyist photographers seem to love it. There are distinct differences between shooting showcases and shooting models.

Photographers Advertising and Setting Expectations

For many of us photography is our business and we shoot different genres including sexy, glam, erotic, etc. but let's be honest in advertising. I have shot countless models over the going on 27 years behind the camera - damn I feel old - anyways, my model shoots also have a makeup artist, sometimes lighting assistants, preplanned locations and wardrobe and the budgets are much much higher than what I charge for showcase shoots. I do not take away from the photographic quality of my images regardless of who I shoot with or what the shoot is for but let's be real, ladies if you pay me $1000 for a shoot you're getting more from that shoot than if you pay me $100. I can't pay a makeup artist, pull wardrobe, etc. on a $100 budget - and before you start lining up for those $100 shoots - don't cause D don't play that...lol.

Photographers, it's simple, use whatever images you have to advertise to get started but be honest and set the true expectation for what your client is to expect. With the exception of a few photos I've used in my threads here on eccie, all of the images are from showcase shoots with providers - two were from exotic dancers and one is from a model friend. I use showcase shoots to advertise for showcase shoots so you know what to expect when you shoot with me.

It's simple fellas (and ladies - Hi Leo and Megan ) truth in advertising goes a long way. Honestly fellas, look at Leo and Megan - they, use the right subjects for the right marketing campaigns.

Shooting but not showing faces

One difference that may seem minor but is a major one when shooting is faceless photos. When shooting models you want to capture expressions, the eyes are often the soul of the image. When shooting providers you know that most will blur their face or you will just crop the shot so you don't convey their expressions but trust me EVERY provider you shoot will first look at their facial expression when they review the images and even if they will not show their face that can make or break the image in their minds. They may have plans to show the images to a ATF client or a client may have paid for the shoot and wants a few special images and you may not know that so no matter what you think she may think of her face in the images try to get them to be expressive - trust me - they will appreciate your efforts. Also focus on her smile makes a ton of difference in the photos. I shoot many women who won't show their face but they showcase their smiles so always capture a few of those lovely smiling faces.

Free/Trade/TFP/TFCD/WTF Ever

Ok this seems to be a hot one. Let's face it in this business the trade shoot will come up and is often accepted. Trades in modeling are different - you are not trading for a physical encounter - it's generally "I, the photographer, will shoot you and I will review the images and I will pick a few that I feel are outstanding and send you between 2 - 5, maybe 10, of those images and I will allow you to use them for your advertising and marketing as long as you don't sell the images". Well that works for models but here it's "I'll shoot you and make your showcase sparkle and you give me an hour or two of your time as compensation" and that's where many problems come from. Notice I did not say anything about delivering the photos because so often once that trade is completed on the physical front then those photos are put on the back burner.

I don't do trades. I've had different photographers ask me about it and the answer is simple - I keep it professional. This is a BUSINESS and she is in BUSINESS and if there is a mutual attraction between you two that's fine just complete BUSINESS first. Someone will almost always feel slighted in this trade for pics arrangement and it's usually the provider. I hear stories all the time about how she has shot with someone and they did a trade and now it's months later and she still has no photos. That type of reputation will not only damage your business with providers but gets out about you it will damage your business in general.

The reality is there are a lot of providers who don't want to pay for photos and they know some guys will jump to shoot them for a roll in the studio hay but both parties should stop and ask themselves is it really worth it. If you agree to do a trade then make sure as the photographer you stick to your end of the deal. Deliver the proofs in a reasonable time and then when she picks her selections make your edits and deliver in a reasonable time.

Now if you offer a trade for photos only and a provider accepts that agreement don't be that creepy guy that then turns or attempts to turn it into another type of trade - she has in her mind what she's gonna do and if you push the issue, well, she might just push your ass out the studio window...lol...ok seriously, don't push them into feeling like they are in a corner because you never know who and how many people they know and what damage that will have on your business.

Paid Shoots


Ok ladies you want to be paid for your time, you don't like to be negotiated off your rate, you feel that you will give the level of service that warrants what you charge - guess what - we do too. Everyone has rates and if you want to shoot with someone then respect their rates as much as you would want them to respect your rates if they called you for an appointment. Nuff said on that one.

Length of shoots

Ok this one can be tricky but always...no no...ALWAYS keep in mind that time is money and money is time. My shoots vary from an hour or so to multiple hours. I am always aware of the time and I always remind who I'm shooting with of our time. My shoots are fun, lighthearted, and we typically laugh a lot - ok some may say we laugh more than we shoot - but that's just me. Now with models sometimes you can go over on shoots and it's ok but in this business you have to be aware of how long you are taking that provider away from making her money and in some cases, whether you know or don't know, who else her time away from making money can affect. Unless you both agree ahead of time on a 8 hour shooting frenzy don't spring that on her. Even if she's paying you to shoot 10 outfits she's expecting to be out of there in at most 3 hours and once that time frame has hit the mood of the shoot will change. Yes, we love to shoot, and if we're getting great stuff then we'll want to keep shooting but you're shooting yourself in the foot if you think she's happy and have not asked her if continuing to shoot is ok. Be aware and be professional about time management and be understanding of the fact that they cannot stay and shoot all night with you - get 'em in and get 'er dun.

Be RESPECTFUL

Ok you would think this needs to go without saying but for goodness sakes be respectful of your clients - regardless of what they do and what you read in their reviews she's a person and she's your client. Now every woman that has shot with me knows that I'm a flirt but I am always respectful. I hear way too many stories about how so and so treated the provider like she was there as a provider and not as his subject to shoot and trust me, if they tell me they are definitely telling other girls. I don't care who you are shooting - if you can't see the person you are shooting in a professional manner then you are not in the right business. Yes that deserved a bold.

Shoot Planning

Let's be honest with many - probably most - showcases shoots there is no planning. They contact you, request to shoot, pay deposit, show up with some outfits, and that's the planning. Honestly, take some time to plan your shoots, discuss wardrobe, colors, etc. Treat the shoot like a shoot and you will be much happier with the end results.

Ok now ladies this one is for you. When you know you have a shoot, you want to be your best so try to refrain - and I'll leave it at that. If you show up "unrefrained" then it will have an affect on the images and chances are you will not be as happy as you would have been had you refrained. This goes with planning because no one plans to have a horrible shoot but there are things beyond the photographer's control that can lead to a horrible shoot.

Number of Images

Ok ladies this is for you. We shoot - there is no guaranteed number of images. Some shoots will turn out hundreds of images and some will not but think about it, would you rather have a successful shoot with say 200 images taken and have a hard time choosing between those 200 or would you want 2000 images taken and can't find 2 that you like out of the 2000. The number of images taken is not an indicator of how professional the photographer is. Honestly I did a shoot last week where I did 2 outfits and we only had time to squeeze in 130 shots of those two outfits and she likes 120 of the 130. I like that ratio much better than if I would have shot 1300 of her and she could not find 100 she liked. Ladies look at the quality of the images not the quantity and if the quality is to your liking then, in my best southern drawl, there ya go.

Delivering your product

It's simple. Just Do It. Again, this should not have to be said but in our world it does. Now I am a firm believer in things happen. In life you have last minute things that will screw up your plans more often than not but we do have a word that tells us exactly what we should do....crap...it's right on the tip of my tongue...umm...oh yeah...COMMUNICATION. It's simple, if there is a delay in delivering proofs or edits then communicate. If there is a delay in arriving at the shoot then communicate. If there is a delay in whatever, it's simple, communicate. It can stop an easy situation from being a horribly difficult one. Now once you've communicated then stick to what you said.

Ownership/Usage/Agreements/Releases/Etc.

This is one topic that will be discussed forever. Ok I'll start with the simple. The artist owns the image, the subject can use the image and if it were that simple life would be awesome. We sign releases, etc. all the time but in this business because of discretion and also often unknown items like management agreements can be a sticky situation. I'll say this - whatever you do or don't do - stick to what you say you'll do and again use that C word - no not that one or that one...COMMUNICATION...yeah yeah that one.

NCNS

Ok now this one I'll simply say if you no call/no show me and don't contact me to let me know what's up then don't bother contacting me again. Plain and simple. Ladies, if you get nc/ns'd by a client and he does not even bother to contact you to apologize then you're pissed and you'll tell all the other ladies how he wasted your time. Well guess what, we talk also - more than you all know - and if you screw me on a shoot then I'll definitely let other photographers know not to take out of their busy schedules, pull away from their family time to go and setup lights and get their studios setup just to sit there and have their time wasted by someone with so little regard for being professional that they can't send a text message and say sorry I can't make it. Whew - yeah it happens to all of us but that's why we take deposits.

In Summation

Ok there is sooooo much more but I got a shoot to get to so if I've missed anything I ask the other professionals with showcase experience to chime in. If there is something you want to have discussed in more detail feel free to ask. I want this to be an open discussion so we can clear up misconceptions and all have happier and more successful showcase shoot encounters.
Thank you for this post!

http://www.southerngfe.com/forums/fo...apher-s-Corner
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:45 PM   #4
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VERY well said.

As a newbie in this genre of photography, I will heed that advise very closely.
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:15 PM   #5
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this thread has good potential. hopefully the powers that be will see fit to sticky it.
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:01 PM   #6
Megan Love
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_deere View Post
outstanding, as expected.

i'll only add a little right now with respect to legal stuff.

in real world commercial photography, i have 3 things that have to be taken care of if the subject of the photos is people:

model release
license agreement
contract

the model release states that the model relinquishes all right to privacy or profit from the images. that means the photographer can do anything they want with them, and the model has no claim on profits and can't sue if she sees herself on the side of a downtown bus.

the license agreement states how a client or other party may use images. this covers everything from printing on billboards to coffee cups. i might shoot images for a client who will use them in magazine ads, and the agreement will state for what time period, number of issues, etc. it can be very detailed. that client may or may not want to allow me to use those images in my own advertising. sometimes images may be licensed multiple times to multiple parties. i had one that went to a magazine for a special edition and then was later bought by an energy drink company for in-store advertising. THE OWNERSHIP OF THE IMAGES BY THE PHOTOGRAPHER NEVER CHANGES, ONLY THE PERMISSIONS FOR HOW IMAGES WILL BE USED.

the contract simply states the scope of work, delivery, etc.

now, there are 2 things (at least) about escort photography that are odd…

1. the CLIENT and the MODEL are the same person, at least if she's an indy.
2. the client/model may not be willing to sign any documents with their real name.

regardless, any truly professional shooter should a least discuss these things with you, girls, and give you the option to sign or not.

if nothing is documented, then all either of you have is your word and your reputation.

therefor, it's in the best interest of both parties to discuss all this up front. i may not expect a girl to sign a contract, but i still put ALL the things she needs to know in writing at some point, and i goddamn well stick to it.

playing the escort game is a matter of trust. so is photographing them.


I don't do contracts. The ladies don't want their real names out there and neither do I. So we go on a hand shake and trust. I'm an escort and photographer, so I totally understand the need for privacy.

The ladies trust that I will not do anything to/with their photos unless asked permission. If she retires and wants her photos taken down from my site, I take them down immediately... Also, the lady has the option of a watermark or not. I give them both if asked...

I try to be as fair as possible
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Love View Post
I don't do contracts. The ladies don't want their real names out there and neither do I. So we go on a hand shake and trust. I'm an escort and photographer, so I totally understand the need for privacy.

The ladies trust that I will not do anything to/with their photos unless asked permission. If she retires and wants her photos taken down from my site, I take them down immediately... Also, the lady has the option of a watermark or not. I give them both if asked...

I try to be as fair as possible
exactly. i have yet to meet an escort who wanted to sign anything, and this is exactly how you have to approach it.

regardless, i let them know how it works in the real world and i think that's the professional thing to do. i think covering all those bases up front is the best way to keep misunderstandings from turning into the kind of disaster we've seen play out here.

as far as the watermark goes, that's a deal breaker for me. the brand i put on the images i shoot is my best advertising.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:06 PM   #8
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exactly. i have yet to meet an escort who wanted to sign anything, and this is exactly how you have to approach it.

regardless, i let them know how it works in the real world and i think that's the professional thing to do. i think covering all those bases up front is the best way to keep misunderstandings from turning into the kind of disaster we've seen play out here.

as far as the watermark goes, that's a deal breaker for me. the brand i put on the images i shoot is my best advertising.
The ladies use my watermark for the most part. I have been enforcing it a bit more over the last few months. But some ladies use eros, and eros doesn't allow watermarks. So when I send the ladies their pics, they have both.

I'm still new(3years) to the escort photography world and try to be fair since I'm an escort as well. But the ladies have no issues with my watermark overall...

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Old 01-25-2014, 09:49 PM   #9
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Thanks to the mods for making this a sticky.

Thank you john_deere for adding the business and agreement information also. That is a section I intentionally left open and I hoped you would add some input to it.

Megan thank you also for the input and I will have to keep an eye out on the other forum. I agree with your approach on documentation and it is definitely a trust based approached but when the providers know you are professional and they know your reputation speaks for you they don't have a problem with that agreement. I am a firm believer in branding and I always put my name on my images with the exception of images placed on p411 but I give two copies in that case - one unbranded for p411 and the other branded for all other sites. We all have a style that is unique to us and once our work has been around for a while people will recognize it but for those that are new to our work our brand is the starting point for them finding us.

Thank you to those that have commented here and written to me in private about this thread and I am glad you have found it to be a useful resource and I hope that it continues to be just that - an open forum discussion that makes each of our roles a little easier.
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Old 01-25-2014, 10:06 PM   #10
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Thanks to the mods for making this a sticky.

Thank you john_deere for adding the business and agreement information also. That is a section I intentionally left open and I hoped you would add some input to it.

Megan thank you also for the input and I will have to keep an eye out on the other forum. I agree with your approach on documentation and it is definitely a trust based approached but when the providers know you are professional and they know your reputation speaks for you they don't have a problem with that agreement. I am a firm believer in branding and I always put my name on my images with the exception of images placed on p411 but I give two copies in that case - one unbranded for p411 and the other branded for all other sites. We all have a style that is unique to us and once our work has been around for a while people will recognize it but for those that are new to our work our brand is the starting point for them finding us.

Thank you to those that have commented here and written to me in private about this thread and I am glad you have found it to be a useful resource and I hope that it continues to be just that - an open forum discussion that makes each of our roles a little easier.
I forgot about p411 and watermarks. But like I said, the ladies don't mind using the watermarks. I don't make them too flashy, so all good.. Thanks for the good advice
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:20 PM   #11
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The ladies use my watermark for the most part. I have been enforcing it a bit more over the last few months. But some ladies use eros, and eros doesn't allow watermarks. So when I send the ladies their pics, they have both.
that's why this is already a great thread. i had no idea some forums disallowed watermarks. that seems weird, but it is what it is.

and, as you pointed out, we have to be willing to deliver accordingly. one example is the odd size format used in p411 slideshows. i don't want my clients to have to worry about resizing, or, quite frankly, worry that they might screw up an image by doing it themselves or having a friend do it, so i deliver a set of properly sized jpg with their other stuff. it's an easy win-win.
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:29 AM   #12
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Very well said guys! I would like to add two things if I may~

There are many photographers who ask me about shooting providers and how they can get into it. As soon as I mention that 1) Most dont like shooting nudes and 2) its a business and they are not gonna get blown/laid after the shoot, they generally lose interest.

Providers generally have specific needs, uterus shots are not among them. Even those that shoot nudes want them classy, tasteful, not pornografic (for public display). I always suggest they hire someone with experience in their needs vs someone who is not.

Touch ups~ I've had several over the years ask me to do minor touch ups. It used to not be an issue til one provider who was very thick wanted me to thin her out... a LOT!

Ladies, to ask to have a distinguishing tattoo, birthmark removed to hide your ID is one thing (I prefer to hide before the shot is taken), to alter your appearance is another. I know this is not most, but there are still some who ask.
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:43 AM   #13
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Very well said guys! I would like to add two things if I may~

There are many photographers who ask me about shooting providers and how they can get into it. As soon as I mention that 1) Most dont like shooting nudes and 2) its a business and they are not gonna get blown/laid after the shoot, they generally lose interest.

Providers generally have specific needs, uterus shots are not among them. Even those that shoot nudes want them classy, tasteful, not pornografic (for public display). I always suggest they hire someone with experience in their needs vs someone who is not.

Touch ups~ I've had several over the years ask me to do minor touch ups. It used to not be an issue til one provider who was very thick wanted me to thin her out... a LOT!

Ladies, to ask to have a distinguishing tattoo, birthmark removed to hide your ID is one thing (I prefer to hide before the shot is taken), to alter your appearance is another. I know this is not most, but there are still some who ask.
Agreed! +1000
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:08 AM   #14
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Agreed! +1000
absolutely. use light and camera angle to minimize the…"difficult areas" and to maximize the best parts. that's portrait photo 101.

zits, goobers, or anything else that won't be there next week gets the healing brush.

this also touches on another thing….skin smoothing. everybody has to do their own thing, but let me suggest that the rule of thumb should be, unless you're very good at it, DON'T.

two reasons:

first, it's usually obvious because most people suck at it and have no idea how professional retouchers actually do it. "portrait pro 2.0" is not the answer. a lot of clients already have issues with pro photos not being "real", so why compound the issue?

second, it's wasted profit. doing it right takes lots of time, and in this world, you simply can't charge enough to make it pay.
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:13 AM   #15
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I am so happy this thread was started! Ill be taking these business techniques and applying them to my little photography world over here in SA. I enjoy looking at everyones work and being inspired by your images. I'm really new at photographing women in the community and want to bring the ladies of SA a great female photog they can trust. Building my business this year as a photographer is my main goal, I'm loving all this knowldge y'all have provided here already, thank you!

<3 Leo Lanini
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