New thread on Religion and Politics, to avoid going off topic

[Tiny]

You're not supposed to discuss politics or religion at the dinner table but you darn sure can here!

There's a really good exchange going in another thread. I'm enjoying reading it. If you gentlemen wish to continue, this might be a better place to do it, to avoid getting pointed.

Posts so far:

Originally Posted by rooster

Didn't the Catholic church basically adopt the same philosophy, i.e. since the indigenous people were not "saved" they did not have souls and so killing them was acceptable? Or am I just repeating something simplistic that I heard somewhere?.

Originally Posted by Jacky S

Historically, the Catholic Church has been one of the most corrupt institutions on the Planet.
They yielded the power of excommunication, which was basically theological blackmail. “Do as we say, or burn in Hell for eternity”.

Even Kings and Queens had to succumb to this lunacy.

That shit went on for centuries until Henry V111 told the Pope to stick it where the sun didn’t shine.

But honestly, I don’t know what the Catholic Church’s policy was on slaver, other than they never did much to quell it.

Originally Posted by rooster

As a disenfranchised Cat'lick....I could not agree more..

Originally Posted by TechPapi

Why pick on catholics? Seriously, anyone that believes in a sky-bully is just fucking deluded. Put on your big-boy pants and stop believing in stupid shit.

Originally Posted by rooster

Not picking on Catholics, per se. It was just my upbringing, and I found key parts of it very hypocritical.

But as far as "belief" beyond that, I am a true agnostic. I'm very respectful of people who truly are faithful. But I am not. And I hate nothing more than people who use religion as part of an agenda outside of being a good person, living well.

Evangelical Christianity's involvement in politics is becoming very disturbing. Especially the "prosperity gospel" people.

Originally Posted by Levianon17

There is no Christianity involved in politics.

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... Blimey! .. . The thread topic surely flew right out the window
so some o' you lads could attack religion.

#### Salty

Originally Posted by Jacky S

Salty, “religions” have been creating God in their own image since the dawn of time.

Faith and spirituality are about an individule’s personal standing with what ever Deity he feels compelled to worship.

Religion is about control.

Any “religion” that has as part of it’s teaching that one man can enslave another man is definitely of man, and not of God.

[rooster]

Cool! I get to say again how much I agree with Jacky's last post.

But also want to restate that...while I consider myself to be a true Agnostic...I have enormous respect for those who try to legitimately live moral lives following their religion. But if you pick and chose...or if your religion has demonstrated radical intolerance or promotes violence...NO.

.

[TechPapi]

As you can probably guess by my take on the feeble mindedness of people that believe in the supernatural, I personally feel that religion is the cause of most problems in the world. Get rid of that shit, and we start solving real problems instead of wasting time and energy on the ridiculous.

As far as it being political, religion absolutely is. Just look at the stupid shit like prayer breakfasts, and trump surrounded by a bunch of shystersanointing him, etc. Witness the retarded mess that huckabee sent via twatter regarding Israel. It saddens and disgusts me that humans are collectively that stupid in 2025. Sadly, trump is such a mouth breather he's probably become convinced god saved him so he could fuck up the planet.

Note: I actually DO think we should go ahead and drop some MOPs on Iran. But I don't think it has shit to do with a biblical requirement to side with Israel.

Hey Rooster - an agnostic is just a fence sitting atheist. lol

[rooster]

Originally Posted by TechPapi

As you can probably guess by my take on the feeble mindedness of people that believe in the supernatural, I personally feel that religion is the cause of most problems in the world. Get rid of that shit, and we start solving real problems instead of wasting time and energy on the ridiculous.

As far as it being political, religion absolutely is. Just look at the stupid shit like prayer breakfasts, and trump surrounded by a bunch of shystersanointing him, etc. Witness the retarded mess that huckabee sent via twatter regarding Israel. It saddens and disgusts me that humans are collectively that stupid in 2025. Sadly, trump is such a mouth breather he's probably become convinced god saved him so he could fuck up the planet.

Note: I actually DO think we should go ahead and drop some MOPs on Iran. But I don't think it has shit to do with a biblical requirement to side with Israel.

Hey Rooster - an agnostic is just a fence sitting atheist. lol

Touche, my friend. But the reason I say "I don't know" is because....as is proven every day....I don't actually know shit. So who am I to say whether or not there is a God. I am a man of science, though, and I have a great deal of skepticism.

I agree mostly with the rest of your post, also. I absolutely DESPISE people like Huckabee.

.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by rooster

Touche, my friend. But the reason I say "I don't know" is because....as is proven every day....I don't actually know shit. So who am I to say whether or not there is a God. I am a man of science, though, and I have a great deal of skepticism.

How do you get from organic chemicals 3-1/2 billion years ago to humans and dolphins today? And for that matter, how do you end up with a universe that sprang from nothingness 14 billion years ago?

No offense to board member TechPapi, but you need a dose of healthy self confidence, or arrogance depending on how you look at it, to be an atheist.

Also atheism isn't helpful at all to the ministry of the Church of Tiny.

[TechPapi]

Originally Posted by Tiny

How do you get from organic chemicals 3-1/2 billion years ago to humans and dolphins today? And for that matter, how do you end up with a universe that sprang from nothingness 14 billion years ago?

No offense to board member TechPapi, but you need a dose of healthy self confidence, or arrogance depending on how you look at it, to be an atheist.

Also atheism isn't helpful at all to the ministry of the Church of Tiny.

That's one way to look at it, but I'd argue you just need a healthy dose of intellectual laziness or delusion to just decide it's all explainable by some omnipotent being. And if god did exist, I'd argue he's completely fallen down on the job.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by TechPapi

That's one way to look at it, but I'd argue you just need a healthy dose of intellectual laziness or delusion to just decide it's all explainable by some omnipotent being. And if god did exist, I'd argue he's completely fallen down on the job.

Touche

[Iceman]

I believe that the human body and the whole ecosystem of the world is so intricate and complicated that it could not have happened organically.

[TechPapi]

Originally Posted by Iceman

I believe that the human body and the whole ecosystem of the world is so intricate and complicated that it could not have happened organically.

That's just you "believing" that. It's regrettable that people think science is too complicated so they fall back to superstition.

People that think like you aren't too far removed from those that sat around and assumed the stars were hung by deities. It's part of the problem we have now. People that can suspend rationalization for how we got here can easily suspend it for anything else they're told. The sooner we stop giving religion any serious play, the better off we will be as a species.

Sadly, I won't be around to see it. Hopefully my grandkids will if the god-fearing folks don't destroy everything first.

[VitaMan]

First you need to realize 3 1/2 billion and 14 billion years is a very long time. Plenty of time for nature's experimentation. Second, evolution is proven.


Then there is the fact chimps have approximately 96% of human DNA.


Then there is the idea of God floating around, and it will visit someday. What is it doing today ?


The idea we are God's experiment, and it is watching us and will punish us if we don't follow some behaviors or rules, is a stretch. Was God lonely, so it came up with this idea of humans ?

[Jacky S]

There are trillions upon trillions of stars in the billions upon billions of Galaxies in the known Universe.
Of these, there uncountable numbers of planets that are in what is called the “Goldie Locks Zone” from an energy source, or Sun. Life is surely to exist on these.

When you think in terms of the vastness of the Universe, we become very insignificant.

Human Beings have only been around for a nano second in geological time. Through the eons, other major dominate life forms have come and gone.

Was God as concerned about them as we seem to think he, or she, or it, is about us.

I said before. From the first moment that the first human looked up and started contemplating his own existence, mankind has been creating God in his own image. That seems to be the main difference between us and all other life forms. We can actually contemplate and visualize a beginning, a middle, and an ending.

The ending is what horrifies the Human. There must be something after the end except nothing.

So we create a deity to solve the problem. The solution could be anything from reincarnation to walking on streets of gold.
The reality is when we are through, the atoms that make up our bodies will disperse and in the end, simply become something else.

No different from the tree that falls, decomposes over time, and is recycled into another part of the vast Universe.

Creating and worshipping a Deity calms our fears. It helps us cope.

But it does nothing to quell reality.

[Yssup Rider]

Is this really a political discussion? Sounds like a well observed discussion of creationism and psychology.

[TechPapi]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Is this really a political discussion? Sounds like a well observed discussion of creationism and psychology.

I thought this was meant to be the politics AND religion thread. I think it should be ok since those are so tightly intertwined these days. If that's not the case, let's move it to wherever it works. Sandbox?

Plus, Jackie S just said something I agree with. Let's bask in that for a couple of minutes. lol

[VitaMan]

I don't know about these threads made to avoid going "off topic".


If that is what they are for, they should be merged into the original thread, or put in the Sandbox.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

First you need to realize 3 1/2 billion and 14 billion years is a very long time. Plenty of time for nature's experimentation. Second, evolution is proven.


Then there is the fact chimps have approximately 96% of human DNA.


Then there is the idea of God floating around, and it will visit someday. What is it doing today ?


The idea we are God's experiment, and it is watching us and will punish us if we don't follow some behaviors or rules, is a stretch. Was God lonely, so it came up with this idea of humans ?

I have no doubt that man evolved from unicellular organisms over the course of billions of years. As to the big bang, my math and physics background isn't sufficient to opine, but that and other aspects of relativistic physics make me think, like Rooster, that "I don't know shit." Could there be some kind of divine guidance that ordered the universe? Maybe so.

A question for you, Tech Papi, Rooster and the other atheists and agnostics. Do you believe religion, the opiate of the masses, is a force for good? Like government, is it an institution that evolved so people wouldn't be as likely to kill each other, steal, take advantage of other people, etc.? Or as Jacky says, is it a mechanism to keep us from going mad, thinking about the end of our existence?

And, since they're working toward the same goal, should religion be a part of government? For example, should a majority of voters or politicians decide religious issues like the legality of abortion and euthanasia?

This is a layup for TechPapi. He may get three touche's in one thread.