McNabb

[JohnnyCap]

Great player but nowhere near good enough to have a number retired. Never sniffed winning the big game, and somewhat a turd-brain. I know he'll have support here as a former SU QB, but I think retiring his number makes the Eagles look weak. Which they are.

[jackfengshui]

A player does not have to be a top player on an absolute scale in order to have his number retired by a team. He just has to a top player for that franchise. I think McNabb satisfies that criterion.

Here is part of the official announcement by the Eagles:

"One of the most accomplished passers in NFL history, McNabb is at the top of nearly every passing category in the Eagles' all-time annals. The franchise’s all-time leader in pass attempts (4,746), completions (2,801), yards (32,873) and touchdowns (216), he became one of just four players in NFL history to amass 30,000 passing yards, 200 touchdown passes, 3,000 rushing yards and 20 rushing touchdowns in his career, joining Pro Football Hall of Famers John Elway, Fran Tarkenton and Steve Young. Despite throwing the ball more than any other signal caller in team history, McNabb ranks fourth in NFL history in interception percentage, throwing a pick on only 2.25 percent of all passes."

[Guest092113]

a player should have been of all world caliber on the fiel of play to have his num retired .

[Doove]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCap

Great player but nowhere near good enough to have a number retired.

Agreed. Certainly "Wall of Fame" caliber for The Eagles, but having his number retired? Don't think so.

[Peterfitzintight]

Originally Posted by Doove

Agreed. Certainly "Wall of Fame" caliber for The Eagles, but having his number retired? Don't think so.

I totally agree, wall of fame type honor but no way retire his number. You have to be a hall of famer type player to have that happen. McNabb is not hall worthy.

[The Drummer]

When I heard the news last night, I too thought: Number retired? Really?

[Mattyg2012]

As the title says, I am just a lifelong Philly fan (born and raised there) now stuck in football jail between the Jills and the Mets (or Nets, either of those NY teams could outplay Rex's club). While McNabb never hoisted the Lombardi trophy, he had a far better career than some of you are giving credit for. In addition to Jack's stats, I enjoy pointing out that McNabb has more career passing yards, and only 3 less passing touchdowns that the "Hall of Famer" Jim Kelly. He obviously has more rushing yards, more rushing TDs, fewer INT, a better win pct while in Philly (and only slightly worse overall counting the last 3 seasons), and given the change in the game from the early 90s to the early 2000s, the Eagles run of 4 consecutive NFC championships is close to the Bills mark of 4 SBs (which I realize is the most debatable point made).

All of this was accomplished with a far worse supporting cast, especially at WR. The season that he was finally given a receiving talent (albeit a crazy, pompous ass in TO), they went to the SB and lost by 3, not the multiple TD losses the Bills had in '91, '92, and '93.

Whether or not he was able to win the "big game", McNabb was a talented NFL QB, and paved the way for Vick, RGIII, Capernick, and Wilson to follow. He is also a class act, which these days should count for something.

Based upon the numbers, he is most likely going to be wearing a gold jacket when eligible, and for what he did and meant to the Eagles, he is deserving of the number retirement. Remember, that honor means that no one will wear that number for the team again, and that is an appropriate tribute to No. 5.

[jackfengshui]

Since Mattyg2012 (a former Philadelphian) and I appear to be the only people around here who think that McNabb deserves that honor, I feel obligated to mention, in the spirit of full disclosure, that I too am a former Philadelphian. However, I maintain that my opinion is based solely on analytics and not on sentimentality. LOL

[doctorsteve]

I thought we were going to be talking about Brayden McNabb getting 2 goals last night. Who cares about Donavan?

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Mattyg2012

In addition to Jack's stats, I enjoy pointing out that McNabb has more career passing yards, and only 3 less passing touchdowns that the "Hall of Famer" Jim Kelly.

Yeah, and it took him only 595 more passing attempts to do it. 7.42yds per attempt for Kelly, and 6.9 for McNabb.

and given the change in the game from the early 90s to the early 2000s, the Eagles run of 4 consecutive NFC championships is close to the Bills mark of 4 SBs (which I realize is the most debatable point made).

What does "the change in the game" have to do with that? If anything, "the change in the game" argument would help McNabb in the passing stats comparison you want to use.

The season that he was finally given a receiving talent (albeit a crazy, pompous ass in TO), they went to the SB and lost by 3, not the multiple TD losses the Bills had in '91, '92, and '93.

Hard to lose multiple Super Bowls when you're losing multiple NFC Championship games.

Based upon the numbers, he is most likely going to be wearing a gold jacket when eligible, and for what he did and meant to the Eagles, he is deserving of the number retirement. Remember, that honor means that no one will wear that number for the team again, and that is an appropriate tribute to No. 5.

Nobody's saying he wasn't very good, or even great. But to me, retired numbers are for the likes of the Mantles, Jordans, and Montanas of the world. Not some guy for having more passing yards than Jim Kelly. In almost 600 more attempts.

[JohnnyCap]

Jim Kelly is a great counter example. Is his number retired? I'm in Buffalo but not native and not a Bills fan. Anyhow, my argument, Kelly vs. McNabb, would be the four appearances in the SB, I don't consider 4 NFC champ games in a row even close. I don't much care for the individual stats, I picture old-timers sitting around in a few decades saying, yeah, that McNabb could play but he always lost the big game. Plus there is the fact Kelly retired from his team, McNabb went to the arch-enemy.

I don't think he made the men around him better. I don't think he was classy, but rather the opposite. And no way did he pave the way for Vick or other running QBs; that road was paved and sealed by Randall Cunningham and others.

[The Drummer]

Kelly's #12 is indeed retired. It's my understanding, number 12 is the only number the Bills have officially retired. Other numbers unofficially retired (reduced circulation) can be found here on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo...etired_numbers

[jackfengshui]

The Bills has officially retired only Jim Kelly's #12. The Eagles has retired 9 numbers:

5 Donovan McNabb QB 1999-2009
15 Steve Van Buren HB 1944-51
20 Brian Dawkins S 1996-2008
40 Tom Brookshier DB 1953–61
44 Pete Retzlaff RB, WR, TE 1956–66
60 Chuck Bednarik LB, C 1949–62
70 Al Wistert OT 1943–51
92 Reggie White DE 1985–92
99 Jerome Brown DT 1987–91

Different clubs appear to be using different philosophy to bestow this honor, and it may not be very fruitful for us to try to compare them.

[Guest120615-3]

Originally Posted by jackfengshui

The Bills has officially retired only Jim Kelly's #12.

huh...still waiting for #32 to be retired.

[jackfengshui]

Originally Posted by mwebber

huh...still waiting for #32 to be retired.

"If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit!"

Actually, three Bills numbers are "unofficially" retired: #32, #34 (Thurman Thomas) and #78 (Bruce Smith).