Debt limit

[HedonistForever]

So, what do you think you know about what is needed to raise the debt limit ceiling? Must the Republicans co-operate in order for it to pass? The answer is no, they don't need to vote at all. Democrats through use of "reconciliation", which they love to use when THEY want to, are now being forced to use it and only need the 50 plus one votes that they already have.


Meaning the Democrats can do this on their own but so far have said they will not because there are only so many times they can use re-conciliation and they don't want to give one of those times up on this one.


So, if the debt limit fails and the world comes to an end, who is to blame? Republicans whose votes were not needed or Democrats who could have done this on their own if they wanted to but would choose to let the country default all in the hopes that they can blame it on Republicans for the 22 mid terms as if there isn't already enough shit to hang around the necks of Democrats.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-on-debt-limit


McConnell Tells Biden GOP Won’t Cooperate on Debt Limit


Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell told President Joe Biden he should pressure Democratic leaders in Congress to go ahead and raise the debt limit on their own because the GOP won’t cooperate.
In a letter to Biden Monday, McConnell demanded that the president “engage directly with congressional Democrats on this matter” and said Republicans will not be changing their position.
“Bipartisanship is not a light switch that Speaker Pelosi and Leader Schumer can flip on to borrow money and flip off to spend it,” McConnell wrote, referring to Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. “Republicans’ position is simple. We have no list of demands. For two and a half months, we have simply warned that since your party wishes to govern alone, it must handle the debt limit alone as well.”
McConnell wants Democrats to use the reconciliation process to pass it on their own as they are doing with an expansive tax and spending package to carry out much of Biden’s agenda.

Budget experts say that process, which wouldn’t be subject to a filibuster, would take at least two weeks to complete, and Schumer has said Democrats won’t take that course.

It would take 60 votes to succeed at this effort, and the Senate is split 50-50 between the two parties. McConnell said Republicans won’t support that effort to lift the borrowing limit, as Democrats did several times in the early 2000s when the GOP controlled the Senate.

“Nonpartisan experts confirm that Senate Democrats have every necessary tool to pass a standalone debt limit increase through reconciliation and enough time to do it before late October,” McConnell wrote in his letter to Biden. “As I have warned for months, this is the path they will need to take.”


What's good for the goose.......


https://www.republicanleader.senate.go v/newsroom/research/biden-and-schumer-voted-against-debt-limit-increases-during-unified-gop-government


Biden And Schumer Voted Against Debt Limit Increases During Unified GOP Government

In The Early 2000s, When Republicans Were In Power, Sens. Joe Biden And Chuck Schumer Had No Qualms About Voting Against Debt Limit Increases, With Biden Describing The Vote As ‘A Protest Of The Policies That Have Brought Us To This Point’ And Schumer Running Campaign Ads Against The Vote

During The Bush Administration, With A Republican President And Republican Majorities In Congress, Joe Biden Voted Against Increasing The Debt Limit, Saying, ‘It Is A Statement That I Refuse To Be Associated With The Policies That Brought Us To This Point’

Hypocrite much?

See what I mean about how both parties play the same game, it's just that most Americans, including myself, don't remember when the shoe was on the other foot and what "their" party did in similar circumstances like in protesting the confirmation of electors against Bush and Trump like Republican did against Biden.


Yes, I know Democrats didn't riot but that is a separate issue from the facts trying to be denied by Democrats that they never tried the same thing.

[NoirMan]

If McConnell voted to spend the money, then claiming he won’t vote to pay for it is a political stunt. That’s all this is. If the Democrats fail on a vote to raise the debt ceiling the Republicans will have no choice but to vote in support of it. This is just posturing as a way (smartly I’ll admit) of making the Democrats use reconciliation for this rather than to pass their agenda. Personally I’ve no issue with it as that’s fair today like it’ll be fair tomorrow or years from now when the Republicans have the senate.

The US has never defaulted on its debt and never will. The day that happens we cede being the world’s currency to the Euro which be devastating to the dollar and it’s value.

Anyone who pretends that one side is more hypocritical than the other is either naive or dishonest.

[Jacuzzme]

They could always spend less money than they take in in tax revenue, in which case raising the debt ceiling would be unnecessary.

[NoirMan]

You do realize the debt ceiling gets exhausted due to yesterdays spending. It’s post pay not concurrent pay. So when spending is approved today. It’s paid for tomorrow after the money is spent.

The debt ceiling issue that arises is because all budget spending is based on speculative revenue which may or may not come to fruition. That’s why the debt ceiling as a tool is nonsensical.

What would actually make far more sense is the govt should “borrow” money before they spend it. That would fix the issue.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

So, what do you think you know about what is needed to raise the debt limit ceiling? Must the Republicans co-operate in order for it to pass? The answer is no, they don't need to vote at all. Democrats through use of "reconciliation", which they love to use when THEY want to, are now being forced to use it and only need the 50 plus one votes that they already have.


Meaning the Democrats can do this on their own but so far have said they will not because there are only so many times they can use re-conciliation and they don't want to give one of those times up on this one.

I'd absolutely love to see them use reconciliation on raising the debt ceiling, if it prevented the Democrats from passing their $3.5 trillion "wish list" bill. My question, would this potentially be the case? Here's what Wikipedia has to say,

Congress can pass up to three reconciliation bills per year, with each bill addressing the major topics of reconciliation: revenue, spending, and the federal debt limit. However, if Congress passes a reconciliation bill affecting more than one of those topics, it cannot pass another reconciliation bill later in the year affecting one of the topics addressed by the previous reconciliation bill.[2] In practice, reconciliation bills have usually been passed once per year at most.[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconc...tates_Congress)

It seems like the $1.9 trillion COVID relief bill passed through reconciliation earlier this year would be a spending bill, as would the proposed $3.5 trillion "wish list bill." So you couldn't pass both in one year, since both address spending? But apparently that's not the case.

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by NoirMan

You do realize the debt ceiling gets exhausted due to yesterdays spending. It’s post pay not concurrent pay. So when spending is approved today. It’s paid for tomorrow after the money is spent.

The debt ceiling issue that arises is because all budget spending is based on speculative revenue which may or may not come to fruition. That’s why the debt ceiling as a tool is nonsensical.

What would actually make far more sense is the govt should “borrow” money before they spend it. That would fix the issue.

1b1- america 's Constitution needs a balanced budget amendment

That would fix the problem of Both parties' overspending.

Your 'fix' is just a ploy for DPST soylent green new Deal Communism infliction on American citizens .

[NoirMan]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I'd absolutely love to see them use reconciliation on raising the debt ceiling, if it prevented the Democrats from passing their $3.5 trillion "wish list" bill. My question, would this potentially be the case? Here's what Wikipedia has to say,

Congress can pass up to three reconciliation bills per year, with each bill addressing the major topics of reconciliation: revenue, spending, and the federal debt limit. However, if Congress passes a reconciliation bill affecting more than one of those topics, it cannot pass another reconciliation bill later in the year affecting one of the topics addressed by the previous reconciliation bill.[2] In practice, reconciliation bills have usually been passed once per year at most.[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconc...tates_Congress)

It seems like the $1.9 trillion COVID relief bill passed through reconciliation earlier this year would be a spending bill, as would the proposed $3.5 trillion "wish list bill." So you couldn't pass both in one year, since both address spending? But apparently that's not the case.

I suspect, and I’ve not read the language that explains how reconciliation works, that with the ‘and’ language in there it’s only bills that do multiple things that preclude additional bills. I suppose that makes sense as it would be a way around the 3 bill limit.

Congress, according to the explanation you cite, could pass

3 spending bills

but couldn’t pass 3 spend/tax bills because once they do the 1st spend/tax neither spend nor tax could be revisited. But they could pass a separate debt ceiling bill.

It’s actually more sensible than it initially looks.

Originally Posted by oeb11

1b1- america 's Constitution needs a balanced budget amendment

That would fix the problem of Both parties' overspending.

Your 'fix' is just a ploy for DPST soylent green new Deal Communism infliction on American citizens .

Until the last sentence I though you might actually make sense then well, you threw it away. Think about how much better your posts could be without the incoherent nonsensical unnecessary silliness tacked on.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by NoirMan

I suspect, and I’ve not read the language that explains how reconciliation works, that with the ‘and’ language in there it’s only bills that do multiple things that preclude additional bills. I suppose that makes sense as it would be a way around the 3 bill limit.

Congress, according to the explanation you cite, could pass

3 spending bills

but couldn’t pass 3 spend/tax bills because once they do the 1st spend/tax neither spend nor tax could be revisited. But they could pass a separate debt ceiling bill.

Thanks, that makes sense. So that's not going to stop them from passing the $3.5 trillion bill. I'll keep working on my Costa Rican residency application, in case the bastards decide to raise my taxes.

[NoirMan]

It’ll be 2M more or less. 3.5 was always a pipe dream. And your taxes won’t go up unless you’re a 1%er.

[dilbert firestorm]

what the reconciliation process does is short circuit the normal governing process that's involved in spending legislation. its just another way of slipping in pork.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

what the reconciliation process does is short circuit the normal governing process that's involved in spending legislation. its just another way of slipping in pork.

I thought you were in favor of ending the filibuster?

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I thought you were in favor of ending the filibuster?

what does the filibuster have to do with this thread?

[NoirMan]

The republicans aren’t just voting against the clean debt limit bill they are filibustering it to force Democrats to use reconciliation. It could pass in normal order if the Republicans don’t filibuster.

For those that don’t understand Senate procedure, it only takes a majority vote to pass legislation in the Senate, even in regular order However, if a cloture vote fails (essentially requiring 60 votes due to a terrible modification over the years of the filibuster) then you can’t get to a 50 vote passage.

[Unique_Carpenter]

Wait a min, there's a debt limit? /s
Tell that to the ex.

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by NoirMan

It’ll be 2M more or less. 3.5 was always a pipe dream. And your taxes won’t go up unless you’re a 1%er.

Horse feces - fiden's tax raises will affect all making over $50K per year, with confiscation of properties under the fiden death tax tyranny.
The DPST appetite for tax and spend is insatiable - even to teh point of spending more than teh UDS GNP!

another misrepresentation of those blinded by the marxist idiotology.





Buck fiden
From my cold dead hands!