What IS "Black" In the USA today?

[ICU 812]

I know this is the Political Forum, but this is not really a political question. Please lets keep it that way.

What is proper, respectful or acceptable today? As a short-fat-white-boy myself, I have no idea anymore. President Obama had one white parent and one who was an African, (please lets not go off into the weeds on his right to be president). Senator Harris has one parent who is from India, and one who is from Jamaica. In other forums on this board, these types of parental heritage are often referred to as "mixed" or blended . But today, in mainstream news outlets, both Harris and Obama are called "Black" or "African-American".

this is a deeply, seriously meant question. I came of age in the sixties. At age eight or ten I came home from a friend's house having just learned "Eeny-Meeny-Miney-Moe . . .and all the rest of it. I was firmly corrected by my parents who instructed me to say "Negro". or "Colored".

in small town Michigan during that time (call it 1958-'62) I had never seen a person of color let alone a "Negro". As I aged into awareness in the next few years, we all learned to say "Black" in stead of negro and then somewhat later on the acceptable phrase became "Afro-American". I don't recall hearing the term "Person Of Color" till decades later, but the term "colored" was as out as "Negro". So now it is some sixty years later on and these things seem to really make a difference in important ways . . .more so than ever before.

I belong to a mainstream church (Anglican or Episcopal) with a significantly diverse congregation ranging from people of European descent to Hispanics and folks from India. There are a significant number of "black" parishioners as well.

In the recent past, we brought in a new priest; a black woman. She was not a good fit as the HR people in the private sector might say. She was a social issues activist (why we brought her in), but misunderstood that the "black" parishioners she saw seated in the pews did not consider themselves to be "African-Americans". The bulk of them are immigrants from Jamaica or Nigeria. Without going into it all here . . .it didnot work out well for the new priest. She is now at an inner city church in Baltimore.

So then: What is what? Is Senator Harris an African-American? Is president Obama? What about the Nigerians in the congregation, or my former co-worker who is a non-Arab Christian from Egypt.?

[gnadfly]

Good issue. I don't know. Through DNA testing my wife is 4% African but everyone would say she's white.

When I was growing up "black" folks were called "colored." Somewhere around the 70s it changed to "black." There was several iterations of "African American" and "Afro American" before "society" settled on black. "Colored" was then considered racist. Then around late 80s "Person of color" entered the lexicon which I still consider weird because its basically a racist term.

Then there's the "one drop of blood" "yardstick" that isn't upheld anymore. At one time President Obama would be called "multiracial." That's not divisive enough.

But fuck race. Now we have males who demand to be called "women" because they simple identify as a female. I heard the new term for female is "Person born with a cervix." Seriously.

[oeb11]

Biden decides 'Who Be black"!!!
he told us all so himself.

[ICU 812]

Thanks for that. Parallels my experience. Had forgotten "Afro-American".

Please lets leave out the gender/sex discussion . . .for another day and another thread.

We did the genetic genealogy thing. Turns out my wife has 2% Bantu and 2% Mali along with another 4% North and South American Indian; a huge European component though her father was born in Venezuela. Would that make her Dad a "White Hispanic" like George Zimmerman?

[HoeHummer]

Originally Posted by oeb11

Biden decides 'Who Be black"!!!
he told us all so himself.

Apparently someOne thinks that’s a jobs for him!

Thank yous for keeping the discussion apolitical, Herr Oebsy!

[papadee]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

I know this is the Political Forum, but this is not really a political question. Please lets keep it that way.

What is proper, respectful or acceptable today? As a short-fat-white-boy myself, I have no idea anymore. President Obama had one white parent and one who was an African, (please lets not go off into the weeds on his right to be president). Senator Harris has one parent who is from India, and one who is from Jamaica. In other forums on this board, these types of parental heritage are often referred to as "mixed" or blended . But today, in mainstream news outlets, both Harris and Obama are called "Black" or "African-American".

this is a deeply, seriously meant question. I came of age in the sixties. At age eight or ten I came home from a friend's house having just learned "Eeny-Meeny-Miney-Moe . . .and all the rest of it. I was firmly corrected by my parents who instructed me to say "Negro". or "Colored".

in small town Michigan during that time (call it 1958-'62) I had never seen a person of color let alone a "Negro". As I aged into awareness in the next few years, we all learned to say "Black" in stead of negro and then somewhat later on the acceptable phrase became "Afro-American". I don't recall hearing the term "Person Of Color" till decades later, but the term "colored" was as out as "Negro". So now it is some sixty years later on and these things seem to really make a difference in important ways . . .more so than ever before.

I belong to a mainstream church (Anglican or Episcopal) with a significantly diverse congregation ranging from people of European descent to Hispanics and folks from India. There are a significant number of "black" parishioners as well.

In the recent past, we brought in a new priest; a black woman. She was not a good fit as the HR people in the private sector might say. She was a social issues activist (why we brought her in), but misunderstood that the "black" parishioners she saw seated in the pews did not consider themselves to be "African-Americans". The bulk of them are immigrants from Jamaica or Nigeria. Without going into it all here . . .it didnot work out well for the new priest. She is now at an inner city church in Baltimore.

So then: What is what? Is Senator Harris an African-American? Is president Obama? What about the Nigerians in the congregation, or my former co-worker who is a non-Arab Christian from Egypt.?

You asked it respectfully, I, as a black American, will try to answer respectfully. I grew up in the 60s. Negro & Colored were accepted then. Then the Movement happened & we became Afro-American/Black American. Late 80s came along & African-American took over which is where we are to this day. Personally, I don't like African-American because 1. Africa is a continent, and not a nation, and 2. My ancestors have been here for 400 years, I'm more American than African. My term would be American of African descent, but that's too long. I liked Afro-American, but that didn't stick, so I use Black American.


I would consider President Obama an Kenyan-American because we know where his father is from. Same with Sen. Harris. I was married to a Haitian. She didn't consider herself Black/African- American because of all the cultural baggage that carries in the US.


I think there is a cultural difference of being "American of African descent", descendants of US slavery, and being of African descent from somewhere else in the diaspora. So I'd consider Michelle Obama a Black/African American, but Barack a Kenyan American.


With race being the issue it is, we are afraid to look even deeper into subtopics like this. I commend you for being brave enough to ask.

[MOCHAakaMOCHA]

Not that I agree with but all of a sudden no one knows what the one-drop rule is esp in regards to US history (how it came to be, how it was (and still is) applied etc)?

[ICU 812]

Papadee: Thanks for that genuine and forthright response.

[dilbert firestorm]

in reference to carribean blacks, they all came from africa as slaves. its one thing to call them africans (its for those who do not know what african country or tribe they came from) but if they knew where their ancestors came from, the name of the african nation of origin should apply.


example: a person was from mali, was sent to jamaica as a slave. this person has children with another slave from the same area . so their children would be malian-jamaican. however, the nomenclature gets tricky when the slaves are interbreeding with other "nationalities" or tribes. I'd say jamaica is prolly thoroughly mixed with different black nationalities.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by MOCHAakaMOCHA

Not that I agree with but all of a sudden no one knows what the one-drop rule is esp in regards to US history (how it came to be, how it was (and still is) applied etc)?

octoroon, quadroon etc... I think this is a southern thing, and probably predates the u.s. constitution. I think it has to do with identifying freeman of color regarding what rights they are "allowed" to have.

[Levianon17]

None of this is that important. Kamala Harris can call her self whatever she pleases. To me she's just an arrogant pain in the ass and Joe Biden will always be a dummy.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

octoroon, quadroon etc... I think this is a southern thing, and probably predates the u.s. constitution. I think it has to do with identifying freeman of color regarding what rights they are "allowed" to have.

Yes a southern reference especially in New Orleans. The French culture in New Orleans specifically the Creole culture is what makes Louisiana very special and unique. Creoles were typically African slaves mixed with French or Spanish settlers. The terms you mentioned Octoroon, Quadroon ect this indicates the degree of African a person posses by decent. a person who is considered an Octoroon is one eighth black and a Quadroon is one fourth black by decent. Collectively these individuals jn Louisiana are referred to as Creoles. Creole Cooking has always been the Hallmark of traditional New Orleans cuisine. No one ever leaves New Orleans on an empty stomach, lol.

[MOCHAakaMOCHA]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

octoroon, quadroon etc... I think this is a southern thing, and probably predates the u.s. constitution. I think it has to do with identifying freeman of color regarding what rights they are "allowed" to have.

**edited a few times for a little clarity**
I am very much aware that "standards/measurements of whiteness" predate the U.S. that wasn't my point.
Isn't this about blackness in the U.S. and who gets to say what it is (and why they think they get to say what it is).
But if we're talking about other places too then sure Puerto Rico (i'm part Haitian and part PR) for example had it's own version of it called Gracias Al Sacar where at one point whiteness could be bought. Pretty much same concept different names.

Modern humans ancestral home is Africa regardless of race but I've actually always gotten a confused Pikachu look when her or Obama are referred to as African American.
Considering one has a father that is a continental African (Kenya) and the other has a Caribbean father (Jamaica). This reminds me about how often I have to tell people "my nationality is American, my race is Black, my ethnicities are Haitian/PR" when called African American.

I guess it's easier for people to just call Black people regardless of where their folks are from/spread out in the African Diaspora the term African American.
It's not the worst thing but it's kind of lazy.
If folks were looking for a generic term i'd rather it be 'Black' than just calling any and everyone AA.
I got more but....maybe tomorrow.

[ICU 812]

Originally Posted by MOCHAakaMOCHA

This reminds me about how often I have to tell people "my nationality is American, my race is Black, my ethnicities are Haitian/PR" when called African American.


.

My father was as white as anyone, borne in Eastern Europe (Hungary). As I have written above, he lived in the US from age 17 and became a naturalized citizen when he could. He spoke with a Henry Kissinger like accent his whole life.

I grew up in a smallish town that might have qualified for a "sal-UTE!" on the old Hee-Haw TV show. One spring my Mom put in a number of window boxes for flow2ers. A neighbor made a well-meant remark that assumed it was because of Dad's "European influence".

Dad was privately furious saying, "When will people come to think of me as an AMERICAN!"

And there it is. When will we all come to think of ourselves collectively as Americans?

[1blackman1]

When we are treated equally as such.