Cato Study: would our nation be broke without immigrants?

[Unique_Carpenter]

We should ask the Native Indian tribes.
Isn't that the critical opinion?

[Levianon17]

Immigrants in and of themselves isn't the problem. The problem lies in the system that is in place that regulates how immigrants enter the country and the protocol that enables them to acquire citizenship. This system is dysfunctional as it doesn't allow the proper vetting and evaluation of immigrants coming into the country. The Government spends too much time and money now trying to deport immigrants that have entered the country undocumented. As far as the country going broke without immigration, I don't think the country would be in danger of going broke. We just need a Immigration system that more simplified.

[RX792P]

I'm in agreement with Levianon17

The majority of immigrants are honest people who are willing to work.
Those immigrants could be contributing.
We've abandoned work on a reasonable immigration system.

It would only take a fraction of the billions and manhours that are not being focused on deportation to develop a proper immigration system.

Pragmatically (rudely perhaps)...most Americans are not willing to do work such as roofing, landscaping, crop harvest etc. There are honest immigrants who are willing.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... That's IF one believes the Study, mate...
I don't believe it.

And there's a GREAT difference between "legal immigrants"
over the years - and illegal immigrants pouring over the border.
Which is me problem with the Study.

#### Salty

Well, supply the link to studies you "believe" in.
That way we can vet the source and not a belief.

We'll be wwwaaaiiiiiittttttiiinnnggg.

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

We should ask the Native Indian tribes.
Isn't that the critical opinion?

Why go for recent ones? Let's here from the relations of The Old One.

[Turner2099]

Originally Posted by RX792P

I'm in agreement with Levianon17

The majority of immigrants are honest people who are willing to work.
Those immigrants could be contributing.
We've abandoned work on a reasonable immigration system.

It would only take a fraction of the billions and manhours that are not being focused on deportation to develop a proper immigration system.

Pragmatically (rudely perhaps)...most Americans are not willing to do work such as roofing, landscaping, crop harvest etc. There are honest immigrants who are willing.

Don't forget there was a bipartisan bill introduced in 2024 which wasn't as draconian as what Trump implemented, but he effectively killed reportedly by calling members of Congress individually.

He also said, “As the leader of our party, there is zero chance I will support this horrible, open borders betrayal of America. It’s not going to happen, and I’ll fight it all the way,” at a rally in Nevada.

Regardless of Trump's actual motive, this allowed him to campaign on immigration, which was a core issue of the campaign.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by RX792P

I'm in agreement with Levianon17

The majority of immigrants are honest people who are willing to work.
Those immigrants could be contributing.
We've abandoned work on a reasonable immigration system.

It would only take a fraction of the billions and manhours that are not being focused on deportation to develop a proper immigration system.

Pragmatically (rudely perhaps)...most Americans are not willing to do work such as roofing, landscaping, crop harvest etc. There are honest immigrants who are willing.

I think what we need is a system similar to Ellis Island. My family originated in Italy. My mother's parents came to America when they were quite young maybe a year or two old. They docked at Ellis Island they were initiated into the immigration system had a meal, Physical exam, took a bath, washed some cloths after a few days they proceeded into New York. Unfortunately, some people coming from Europe were turned away and were sent back to their homeland for various reasons. We need something similar that's if the Government is serious about Immigration reform.

[elghund]

Originally Posted by Turner2099

Don't forget there was a bipartisan bill introduced in 2024 which wasn't as draconian as what Trump implemented, but he effectively killed reportedly by calling members of Congress individually.

He also said, “As the leader of our party, there is zero chance I will support this horrible, open borders betrayal of America. It’s not going to happen, and I’ll fight it all the way,” at a rally in Nevada.

Regardless of Trump's actual motive, this allowed him to campaign on immigration, which was a core issue of the campaign.

The whole reason neither side has fixed the problem when they had the opportunity to do so. They get too much donation money and red meat for their rabid bases……

elg……

[CPT Savajo]

Originally Posted by rooster

Similarly, your lack of "trust" is without merit. The source here is impeccable. Your judgments of it are not based on any real fact.

.

My lack of trust comes with plenty of merit. Giving trust freely only to see that the inverse is true is what leads to mistrust. Perhaps you should try reading between the lines rooster.

[ICU 812]

I got pointed on a different thread for this thought. Perhaps it is more on-topic here.

The topic as I understand it in the OP, is whether or not immigrants and immigration contribute to the US economy . . .do I have that right?

If so, then a discussion of cash flow is also in order. In an overall view, I would say "Yes." In the past, immigration has been a positive for the nation's economy. Immigrants have been the backbone of the American Story. My extended family is an iconic example of that.

Now, let's look at a local anomaly currently in the news . . .Minnisota. It is becoming apparent that the recent influx of Somali refugees and the even more recent influx of undocumented Somalli nationals (true illegal migrants) have been systematically committing fraud with federal assistance programs and, in many cases, sending these tax payer monies off to Somalia. This is not the same as foreign nationals who have legally entered the country and have ben granted the right to work here who may send some portion of their income back to relatives in their homeland.

In the case of Minnesota, this is a fraudulent, systematic, pervasive and predatory looting of tax payer money, on a large scale. Much of it is sent to interest in Somalia. Much of that is not for the daily support of poor relatives . . .often it for the purpose of supporting organizations broad who ae acting against the interests of our nation.

And now, there is suspicion that fraud on a similar scale may be occurring in other states as well. Pennsylvania is often mentioned.

Outside of legal issues, I view this as a cash flow problem. If it is wider than just Minnesota, it could amount to a cash flow problem that measurably affects out economy adversely.

[TheDaliLama]

Once again the lefties try to confuse ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS with immigrants. Did the study say anything at all about the effect the 10+ million ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS let in over 4 years by Biden?

[Turner2099]

The Cato Institute report is about how much of a positive impact immigration, legal and illegal, has had on the US economy, ultimately postulating that immigrants have prevented a debt crisis. The benefit to the US in the report is measured in trillions of dollars.

As you correctly point out, cash flow is part of this. While these trillions of dollars of benefits have been realized, immigrants have been sending money to their previous home countries to help their families.

Trump has stated that the Somali fraud in Minnesota was $19 billion, although he does keep changing the number. The real highest allegation is $9 billion. To add some perspective, Trump just sued his own country for $10 billion after he had already sued for $230 million.

The documented amount for the fraud prosecuted in Minnesota is around $250 million, although Pam Bondi says $300-400 million. Don't forget Pam Bondi also said that 285 million lives were saved due to fentanyl seizures in the first 100 days of 2nd Trump's term, which is roughly 75% of the US population. The $250 million case (Feed the Future) was started in 2022 and other fraud cases were pursued and/or are being pursued. The fraud allegations don't seem to be new.

The cash flow from the this fraud should have been included with the Cato numbers, considering the dates involved. If there was fraud in other states, those numbers should be baked in as well. This illustrates the need to audit government funds being disbursed to any organization (including the Pentagon), which is completely reasonable.

The Cato report documents benefits to 2023, but there's no reason to believe these benefits didn't and wouldn't continue---as long as there's no disruption. Trump proudly announced that 2025 was the first year in 50 years that the US experienced negative migration.

The Somali fraud issue is being used as an example of why immigrants need to be deported and it's obviously drawn a huge amount of attention. This issue is also one the largest red herrings I can recall seeing.

A right-wing influencer released a YouTube video claiming fraud that led to Trump deploying thousands of ICE agents to Minneapolis. Trump first targeted Somalis in 2016. He first targeted Ilhan Omar in 2019. He first targeted Tim Walz in 2024. One video gave Trump the excuse to not only politically go after Somalis, Omar, and Walz, he was able to disparage more immigrants and deploy thousands of ICE agents to a blue city. We've seen the results.

None of the fraud the right-wing influencer alleged was validated. The $19 billion Trump claims doesn't exist. Much of the rest is questionable, but regardless, innocent until proven guilty is an important concept in the US.

[RX792P]

Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

Once again the lefties try to confuse ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS with immigrants. Did the study say anything at all about the effect the 10+ million ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS let in over 4 years by Biden?

If I understand the CATO report, it considers ALL IMMIGRANTS, regardless of legal stature.

What information is your '10+ million illegal immigrants let in' figure based on?

[CPT Savajo]

Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

Once again the lefties try to confuse ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS with immigrants. Did the study say anything at all about the effect the 10+ million ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS let in over 4 years by Biden?

The study encompassed only 3 years of Biden and 2024 didn't count apparently but would have been extremely negative to the Cato Study reporting as were all of Biden's years as President. The Cato Study is a bullshit report not reporting facts.

[CPT Savajo]

Originally Posted by Turner2099

The Cato Institute report is about how much of a positive impact immigration, legal and illegal, has had on the US economy, ultimately postulating that immigrants have prevented a debt crisis. The benefit to the US in the report is measured in trillions of dollars.

LMFAO are you serious? You're kidding right? The United States is the most bankrupt nation on the PLANET. How is bringing in broke 3rd world economic migrants going to prevent a debt crisis in the United States when the USD as the global world reserve currency is losing reserve status when compared to physical gold holdings held by Central Banks? The United States is living through a debt crisis right now and it's going to get a lot worse. Don't worry higher inflation is coming soon and everyone is going to feel it. The immigrants that came here legally or illegally don't know what they walked in to. Especially the ones that came here illegally.

[CPT Savajo]

Originally Posted by Turner2099

The Cato Institute report is about how much of a positive impact immigration, legal and illegal, has had on the US economy, ultimately postulating that immigrants have prevented a debt crisis. The benefit to the US in the report is measured in trillions of dollars.

The Federal Reserve and the bought-and-paid-for politicians have put the United States in a debt crisis. If the immigrants have saved America then why is America in trillions upon trillions of dollars in debt? The immigrants have contributed to America's debt crisis. America's unfunded liabilites add up to what 150-200 Trillion in debt that cannot be mathematically paid back. Can you say BANKRUPT? The US Dollar can go to $0 but physical gold or silver cannot.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/#