US politics circa 2011

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

nations aren't allowed to survive unless they can instill fear by some means in their potential attackers.

Respect and deterrence: defense and security were major concerns that the Founding Fathers addressed when they wrote the Constitution. Therefore, the Secretary of War numbered among the original four cabinet posts. (The others were the Secretary of Foreign Affairs, the Secretary of Treasury and the Attorney General.)

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

But, your point is well taken, the waste that is perpetually pointed out in military spending is an excellent reason to avoid putting the government in charge of health care, or pretty much anything else. As for me, I think the answer is pretty straight forward.

+1

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

Forcefully re-assert the credibility of the nuclear deterrent. If you want cost effective bang for your buck, there is no substitute. And all of that money wasted on "smart weapons" to minimize collateral damage is a complete waste of money, isn't napalm a lot cheaper? Though, I'm sure, our potential adversaries all spend tons of money making weapons less likely to kill innocents, like land mines that self dis-arm after a given time period etc. Don't they?

To underscore your remarks:

January 10, 2011
Schadenfreude In Taliban Country

“While the Islamic terrorist groups in Pakistan’s tribal territories are not happy with the six year CIA decapitation (kill the leaders) campaign, many of the local tribesmen are. Attacked by Predator and Reaper UAVs, armed with missiles, the terrorists (al Qaeda, Taliban and the Haqqani Network) have lost about 40 senior leaders in the last six years, most of them in the last three years. These losses are not only bad for morale at the top, but are seriously disrupting terrorist activities. The locals love this, because the Islamic radicals have been nothing but trouble. For one thing, the radicals come across as a bunch of self-righteous bullies, and use their weapons to intimidate, or kill, anyone who crosses them. This includes coercing families to provide daughters to be wives of bachelor terrorists.
“Then there is the terrorist tactic of using civilians as human shields for protection from the missile attacks. Here’s where the CIA won hearts and minds, by scrupulously avoiding casualties among the innocent tribesmen. Moreover, the tribes eventually drew the line on human shields, bringing out their own guns and forcing the Islamic radicals to back off on hostages. The locals also abandoned their compounds when the terrorists came by to spend the night. If the CIA hit the compound (after noting how the owners fled), the tribesmen blamed the Islamic radicals, not the CIA, for the damage. The Islamic radicals know that the tribesmen have been cheering, not so much for the CIA, as against the radicals, but don’t make an issue of it. On the surface, everyone is a good Moslem. But the local Moslems make no secret of wishing that the super-Moslems would go somewhere else.”

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmoral/articles/20110110.aspx

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

Personally, I think the air craft carrier is an obsolete weapon system. . . .for "humanitarian" missions but then again we shouldn't be doing those anyway. Hummm, do you suppose the US military expends more money on humanitarian missions, "than all other nations combined?"

Aircraft carriers are great assets for conducting humanitarian relief missions, e.g., Haiti.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

. Unless of course one ass umes that these closed, militaristic regimes are as open and honest in disclosures as the US is.

You need to pull your head out of your ass if you think any other county is in our league in the spending department.

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

.
If you want to spend less and still feel secure, you need to come up with a more cost effective way to instill fear, because nations aren't allowed to survive unless they can instill fear by some means in their potential attackers.

Really.....What nation is about to attack us? None as in ZERO unless you know some top secret shit like herfacechair does.

Next why do you think nations want nuckes. Because they do not want to be attacked by the USofA.

Next the constitution which you continue to drag out says nothoing about attacking other nations. It provides for the DEFENSE of the country's citizens. That does not include taxing its citizen to protect ever other nations citizens so that a few of its citizen can get wealthy off such endeavors. But hey that is how I read the thing....your truth seems totally different.

You seem to use it as a license to print money for government contractors.

On to healthcare....I am not for healthcare but between paying for people to go to the ER for free or getting some system in place that does a better job than what we have, I choose the latter.

Now turn off Glen Beck and start thinking for yourself. Read , Read , Read. There is a wealth of info out there with good points on both sides. Keep an open mind and quit coming at me with this Repub always right crap.

[pjorourke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B72fbXDQ7Lg

[Iaintliein]

Originally Posted by WTF

You need to pull your head out of your ass if you think any other county is in our league in the spending department.

Well, my ass may not be as smart as yours, but I'm comfortable with it.

Really.....What nation is about to attack us? None as in ZERO unless you know some top secret shit like herfacechair does.
Thank you for making my point, no other nation would dare attack us because we maintain a strong deterent. In fact, the last time one did we had disarmed ourselves to a slightly lower level of spending vs GDP than now:
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/mili...ative-size.php

Next why do you think nations want nuckes. Because they do not want to be attacked by the USofA.

Ok, your turn, how many nations have we attacked with nukes?

Next the constitution which you continue to drag out says nothoing about attacking other nations. It provides for the DEFENSE of the country's citizens. That does not include taxing its citizen to protect ever other nations citizens so that a few of its citizen can get wealthy off such endeavors. But hey that is how I read the thing....your truth seems totally different.

I whole heartadly agree, we should cut off all foreign aid, military and non-military.

You seem to use it as a license to print money for government contractors.

My points above would save significant amounts of money, a low yield tactical nuke at Tora Bora might not have gotten all of the bad guys, but it would have quietened them down. The Japanese were easily as warlike as the islamofacists, with just as long a history of senseless domination mythology, and they quietened down very nicely.

On to healthcare....I am not for healthcare but between paying for people to go to the ER for free or getting some system in place that does a better job than what we have, I choose the latter.

I agree, the government should only pay for the healthcare of it's employees as part of the employment contract, no one else.

Now turn off Glen Beck and start thinking for yourself. Read , Read , Read. There is a wealth of info out there with good points on both sides. Keep an open mind and quit coming at me with this Repub always right crap.

Since I don't listen to Beck, or any other commentators, can you give me links to his previously making the suggestions I made earlier? He seems like a religious zealot to me so I'm surprised we arrived at the same ideas.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Oh look. Bigtex has seen the light.

Yep I did. Your light is mighty dim!

[pjorourke]

[WTF]

Originally Posted by WTF
You need to pull your head out of your ass if you think any other county is in our league in the spending department.

Well, my ass may not be as smart as yours, but I'm comfortable with it.

I'm comfortable with mine too but I don't stick my head up it.


Really.....What nation is about to attack us? None as in ZERO unless you know some top secret shit like herfacechair does.
Thank you for making my point, no other nation would dare attack us because we maintain a strong deterent. In fact, the last time one did we had disarmed ourselves to a slightly lower level of spending vs GDP than now:
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/mili...ative-size.php

that link don't work, so I have no comment

Next why do you think nations want nuckes. Because they do not want to be attacked by the USofA.

Ok, your turn, how many nations have we attacked with nukes?

None, that is why other nations would like to acquire them. That is why Iraq projected weapons it did not have, not to keep us from invading them but Iran.


Next the constitution which you continue to drag out says nothoing about attacking other nations. It provides for the DEFENSE of the country's citizens. That does not include taxing its citizen to protect ever other nations citizens so that a few of its citizen can get wealthy off such endeavors. But hey that is how I read the thing....your truth seems totally different.

I whole heartadly agree, we should cut off all foreign aid, military and non-military.

Common Ground! Now we're talking.


You seem to use it as a license to print money for government contractors.

My points above would save significant amounts of money, a low yield tactical nuke at Tora Bora might not have gotten all of the bad guys, but it would have quietened them down. The Japanese were easily as warlike as the islamofacists, with just as long a history of senseless domination mythology, and they quietened down very nicely.

That is exactly what I suggested before going into Afghanistan. Nuke that fuc'er. Save money and lives on both sides in the long run.


On to healthcare....I am not for healthcare but between paying for people to go to the ER for free or getting some system in place that does a better job than what we have, I choose the latter.

I agree, the government should only pay for the healthcare of it's employees as part of the employment contract, no one else.

Why should they even pay the healthcare of its employee's? There are plenty of business that make their employee's get their own, in fact the government should get out of the business of subsidizing companies that pay for the healthcare of their employee's.


Now turn off Glen Beck and start thinking for yourself. Read , Read , Read. There is a wealth of info out there with good points on both sides. Keep an open mind and quit coming at me with this Repub always right crap.


Sounds like you been listening more to Ron Paul. You got a ways to go but you'll get there with a lil WTF guidence!

[Iaintliein]

Sorry WTF,
Don't know what happened with the link.

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/mili...ative-size.php

Here is another try.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

Sorry WTF,
Don't know what happened with the link.

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/mili...ative-size.php

Here is another try.

The question is...is how much is enough? And the question might become...How much can we afford?

Why not look at what wars actually cost. Things like interest payment ...

PJ is not going to be happy that you open the door for me to bring out that Pie Chart.


http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

Some say that U.S. military spending will naturally be higher because it has the highest Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of any country. The United States accounts for 47 percent of the world’s total military spending, however the U.S.’s share of the world's GDP is about 21 percent. Also note that of the top 15 countries shown, at least 12 are considered allies of the U.S. The U.S. outspends Iran and North Korea by a ratio of 72 to one.




Really.....What nation is about to attack us? None as in ZERO unless you know some top secret shit like herfacechair does.
Thank you for making my point, no other nation would dare attack us because we maintain a strong deterent. In fact, the last time one did we had disarmed ourselves to a slightly lower level of spending vs GDP than now:
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/mili...ative-size.php

What nation attacked us btw? and do you need one firearm in your house to protect yourself or do you need one thousand. A gun dealer would suggest one thousand. Common sense would dictate that the gun dealer has a vested interest to oversale terror and munitions. That is what I feel has happened.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by WTF

Really.....What nation is about to attack us?

Maybe you’ve missed some recent headlines:

Chinese Stealth test flight overshadows Gates trip
By Kathrin Hille and Daniel Dombey in Beijing
Published: January 11 2011

China’s first stealth fighter completed its maiden flight test on Tuesday, just as US defence secretary Robert Gates met Hu Jintao, the country’s president, in a move seen by some observers as an act of defiance by the People’s Liberation Army against the US.

A senior US defence official said that Mr Hu appeared not to have known about the J-20 fighter test flight, a remark that drew attention to both the limit of Mr Hu’s powers and the PLA’s seemingly independent agenda.


Aircraft Carrier Project
The US Defense Department reported in early 2009 that "Analysts in and out of government project that China will not have an operational, domestically-produced carrier and associated ships before 2015. However, changes in China’s shipbuilding capability and degree of foreign assistance to the program could alter those projections. The PLA Navy is considering building multiple carriers by 2020."

China's navy will develop a new generation of warships and aircraft to give it much longer-range capabilities, its commander-in-chief said in comments published Thursday April 16 2009. Admiral Wu Shengli told the state-run China Daily newspaper the Chinese navy wanted to develop hardware such as large combat warships, stealth submarines with abilities to travel further and supersonic cruise aircraft. More accurate long-range missiles, deep-sea torpedoes and a general upgrade of information technology were also in the pipeline, according to Wu.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/cv.htm

North Korea threatens 'sacred' nuclear war
AP
Thursday, 23 December 2010

Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S.
by Anna Mahjar-Barducci
December 8, 2010 at 5:00 am
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1714/iran-missiles-in-venezuela


China developing carrier-destroying missile
By Zhang Chunyan (China Daily)
Updated: 2010-08-13 08:15


Al Qaeda Still Wants A Dirty Bomb
Wall Street Journal
July 22, 2010


US And Europe 'Must Be Prepared For Iranian Missile Attack By 2020
London Times
June 18, 2010


Obama Tells Military: Prepare For North Korea Aggression
Reuters.com
May 24, 2010


Iran’s New ICBM Surprises Experts
MIDDLE EAST
February 15, 2010


BTW, the Chinese are enjoying a cost saving luxury Western states—i.e., the U.S. and its allies—cannot emulate. The Chinese are copying Western technology and skipping all of the trial and error developmental costs associated with developing weapons since WWI. Whereas they have saved billions of dollars in developing high tech weapons, the human cost has been staggering. The Chinese suffered 23 million killed during WWII (http://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n22/chalmers-johnson/the-looting-of-asia) and another half million killed during the Korean War because it lagged behind the West and Japan in acquiring and developing modern technology. Would you have had the U.S. switch places with China 70 years ago?

If you sat down in January 1941 and compared U.S. and Japanese resources and capabilities you’d have never imagined that the Japanese would be so audacious as to attack an American domestic port—but they did. Despite your facts and your figures and considered opinion, there will always be some belligerent entity out there willing to rise up, take the gamble and attack the U.S.

The equation is dollars and cents balanced against the lives of American servicemen and women. If you cut too much, those Americans will be everyday civilians like those who routinely went to work in the Twin Towers on 9/11. The fewer dollars you spend, the more Americans die.

So when you ask the question: “Who is going to attack the U.S.? I say lets draw a line “_________________” and we’ll fill in the blank when it happens.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Maybe you’ve missed some recent headlines:

Chinese Stealth test flight overshadows Gates trip
By Kathrin Hille and Daniel Dombey in Beijing
Published: January 11 2011

China’s first stealth fighter completed its maiden flight test on Tuesday, just as US defence secretary Robert Gates met Hu Jintao, the country’s president, in a move seen by some observers as an act of defiance by the People’s Liberation Army against the US.

A senior US defence official said that Mr Hu appeared not to have known about the J-20 fighter test flight, a remark that drew attention to both the limit of Mr Hu’s powers and the PLA’s seemingly independent agenda.


Aircraft Carrier Project
The US Defense Department reported in early 2009 that "Analysts in and out of government project that China will not have an operational, domestically-produced carrier and associated ships before 2015. However, changes in China’s shipbuilding capability and degree of foreign assistance to the program could alter those projections. The PLA Navy is considering building multiple carriers by 2020."

China's navy will develop a new generation of warships and aircraft to give it much longer-range capabilities, its commander-in-chief said in comments published Thursday April 16 2009. Admiral Wu Shengli told the state-run China Daily newspaper the Chinese navy wanted to develop hardware such as large combat warships, stealth submarines with abilities to travel further and supersonic cruise aircraft. More accurate long-range missiles, deep-sea torpedoes and a general upgrade of information technology were also in the pipeline, according to Wu.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/cv.htm

North Korea threatens 'sacred' nuclear war
AP
Thursday, 23 December 2010

Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S.
by Anna Mahjar-Barducci
December 8, 2010 at 5:00 am
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1714/iran-missiles-in-venezuela


China developing carrier-destroying missile
By Zhang Chunyan (China Daily)
Updated: 2010-08-13 08:15


Al Qaeda Still Wants A Dirty Bomb
Wall Street Journal
July 22, 2010


US And Europe 'Must Be Prepared For Iranian Missile Attack By 2020
London Times
June 18, 2010


Obama Tells Military: Prepare For North Korea Aggression
Reuters.com
May 24, 2010


Iran’s New ICBM Surprises Experts
MIDDLE EAST
February 15, 2010


.

Yea....let's break the bank on even more Defense spending. Those headlines might scare you but I'll hang into my wallet, thank you very much. We have nukes, nobody is going to attack us. Even Japan did not invade. They only wanted oil, or access to oil.

''What nation attacked us btw? and do you need one firearm in your house to protect yourself or do you need one thousand. A gun dealer would suggest one thousand. Common sense would dictate that the gun dealer has a vested interest to oversale terror and munitions. That is what I feel has happened.''

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

BTW, the Chinese are enjoying a cost saving luxury Western states—i.e., the U.S. and its allies—cannot emulate. The Chinese are coping Western technology and skipping all of the trial and error developmental costs associated with developing weapons since WWI. Whereas they have saved billions of dollars in developing high tech weapons, the human cost has been staggering. The Chinese suffered 23 million killed during WWII (http://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n22/chalmers-johnson/the-looting-of-asia) and another half million killed during the Korean War because it lagged behind the West and Japan in acquiring and developing modern technology. Would you have had the U.S. switch places with China 70 years ago?

WE are talking about now, not 70 years ago. Nobody is invading this country. We would nuke them into oblivion.

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

If you sat down in January 1941 and compared U.S. and Japanese resources and capabilities you’d have never imagined that the Japanese would be so audacious as to attack an American domestic port—but they did. Despite your facts and your figures and considered opinion, there will always be some belligerent entity out there willing to rise up, take the gamble and attack the U.S.

.

Really....who? What Twilight Zone crap are you reading? Nobody is invading this country. Period.

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

The equation is dollars and cents balanced against the lives of American servicemen and women. If you cut too much, those Americans will be everyday civilians like those who routinely went to work in the Twin Towers on 9/11. The fewer dollars you spend, the more Americans die.

.

You sound like some blackmailer. ''Give me money or your citizen will die!''

What scary is that there are a shit pile of you that actually believe this crap.

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

So when you ask the question: “Who is going to attack the U.S.? I say lets draw a line “_________________” and we’ll fill in the blank when it happens.

I won't ever ask you that question again, I thought I might get a thought out response, not some made for TV Alamo dialogue.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

Sorry WTF,
Don't know what happened with the link.

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/mili...ative-size.php

Here is another try.

Shit, my link didn't work.

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by WTF

You sound like some blackmailer. ''Give me money or your citizen will die!''

What scary is that there are a shit pile of you that actually believe this crap.

I think WTF has something here.

But let's don't stop there. I mean, c'mon...How many of you all have really ever been in a fire? It seems we waste a lot of money on f*ck'n firemen, and all in all...per person killed by fire...it's a big waste.

The same thing goes for cops. Let's see a show of hands...How many of you have every really been shot at by a bad guy? And even if you have...it appears you're still here...so it couldn't have been too bad. Seems like a lot of wasted money on cops, for very little gain.

Truthfully, if we follow WTF's thought process...we just need to spend more time at the gym, beefing up. That way we can walk around spitting on the sidewalk and acting like the baddest ass around so no one will bother us.

Yep, that ought to work.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by WTF

Shit, my link didn't work.

Millions of your followers are in mourning

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by WTF

Shit, my link didn't work.

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

Millions of your followers are in mourning

3 points!