Joe Paterno 1926 - 2012

[Finger Bang]

Unfortunately that's kinda my point. No offense to you or your opinion. (And I MEAN that!) But isn't that more about sports figure worship than right and wrong? (Btw, I'm a Gamecock, so Spurrier's words do hold some weight with me!)
By no means am I trying to piss on anyone's memory. I just didn't care for all the "he's an innocent victim" talk that came out by a lot of people.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

Some comments on Joe Paterno by those who coached against him. A few i find particularly interesting are these by Steve Spurrier and Tom Osborne:

“I’ve coached around 300 college games and only once when I’ve met the other coach at midfield prior to the game have I asked a photographer to take a picture of me with the other coach. That happened in the Citrus Bowl after the `97 season when we were playing Penn State.”—South Carolina coach Steve Spurrier.


“Whenever you recruited or played against Joe, you knew how he operated and that he always stood for the right things. Of course, his longevity over time and his impact on college football is remarkable. Anybody who knew Joe feels badly about the circumstances. I suspect the emotional turmoil of the last few weeks might have played into it.”—Nebraska athletic director and former coach Tom Osborne.

And this from a player Joe recruited but who when to Michigan State instead.

“(During recruiting,) Paterno was the only coach that didn’t talk about football. He talked about life and what life had to offer at State College. While I did not go there and went to Michigan State, he was the only coach to call me and wish me luck.”—former Michigan State wide receiver Nigea Carter.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Finger Bang

By no means am I trying to piss on anyone's memory. I just didn't care for all the "he's an innocent victim" talk that came out by a lot of people.

He was a victim of circumstances and age.

An 80 year old man that was in over his head in this regard. He did report what he knew to those above him.

He was not guilty of anything.

He did not try and cover it up.

All report on Paterno was that he was a stand up guy. All.

He was in over his head and he knew it.

Did you read the link I provided?

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Finger Bang

Is he any better than someone who moved priests to another parish after being discovered molesting children?

I'm aware you didn't follow this issue closely but the above analogy doesn't hold water. It's known that Paterno didn't know about the 1998 incident that the Penn St. Police basically dropped. If he had known while Sandusky was an active member of Paterno's staff then perhaps so. Sandusky retired after the 1999 season. In 2002 when Paterno was made aware of the incident witnessed by Mike McQueary it's also now known by McQueary himself that out of respect for Paterno, he did not tell Paterno the full extent of what he saw. So Paterno didn't have a clear idea at the time of how serious this incident really was and this very likely factored to some degree on Paterno's failure to follow up with his superiors who in my opinion simply wanted to bury the issue. And they did. Hindsight is an easy game to play but given the way in which Paterno generally conducted himself over his life it's no wonder he was mortified when the true nature of that incident became known to him. I for one would like to give Joe the benefit of the doubt that had he known in 2002 what McQueary claims he really saw that Paterno might very well have acted more forcefully.

[essence]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

Paterno's failure to follow up with his superiors

I know nothing about this sport, don;t even know whether we are talking football, basketball or baseball (and soccer is the game which everybody else in the world calls football) but:

I agree, being good as a coach/athlete whatever does put you on a pedastal for which you may or may not be suited.

As far as I can see, he DID do the right thing, being a coach does not mean you are responsible for security and policing, he DID report it to the right people, he DID report it to the relevant authorities, he DID arrange a meeting with the right people.

I fear it is the media/culture who elevate these sporting figure heads to be responsible for everything from world famine to foreign and domestic policy, and then love to tear them down when they do the right thing and pass issues on which they know they are not competent to the competent authorities.

If he had seen a neighbour being raped, would he have initiated an investigation. No of course not, he would report it and be at hand to answer questions. Exactly what Paterno did.

As for some of the others involved, it is a different story.

So, from the little I know, he was both a good coach and a responsible caring person.

The two are probably usually un correlated. But maybe the very best coaches also have a streak of exceptional kindness whcih gains the respect of the players. They do things out of the limelight of the media.

[Guest032414-2]

Originally Posted by Finger Bang

I'm not a HUGE sports fan, so I didn't CLOSELY follow this story. I also think because I don't worship sports figures to the extent some do, I might be able to look at this objectively. I understand he was a great coach, but a great man? ASSUMING these allegations are true, didn't he turn his head to reorts of Sandusky's acts? I don't think he personally witnessed anything, but didn't he know these things were or may be going on? Couldn't he have followed up long ago so that maybe even one more child wouldn't have been subjected to abuse? Not insinuating he was in any way as bad as Sandusky, but should "great coaching" actually overshadow that big of a "bad decision not to follow up"? Is he any better than someone who moved priests to another parish after being discovered molesting children?
I may be incorrect on some of those points...again, I didn't follow TOO closely. But a lot of the defense of Paterno I did see seemed to be so related to coaching and his being a "good man". Not a whole lot of thought to how a molestation may have been prevented. Hey, I'm a HUGE Saints fan and a HUGE Drew Brees fan. I'd like to think if he were involved in anything like that, I'd be able to condemn him as, "What a great quarterback, but what a piece of shit person."
I apologize in advance for stepping on toes...just an opinion.

Your opinion is valid, but hopefully also able to be changed.

JoePa was more than just a football coach; he was life coach, mentor, teacher, and donor. He did as much for the university, current and future students, and his players than can be measured by the title of head coach. The measure of his influence isn't one of wins, but one of having so many of his players become great men, fathers, employees, bosses, volunteers, etc. He wanted to see his men graduate into adulthood ready to become successful as well as active in their communities. He was raising citizens who happened to play football, well.

We still do not know what McQueary actually told him, we may never know, but Sandusky was no longer his employee and was out of JoePa's purview. Last I heard, and this has probably changed, but McQueary supposedly filtered what he told JoePa out of regard for the man, not to mention at his age a man raping a boy would have been as foreign as Twitter would be to Dickens. A man who has shown so much honor and integrity over the years deserves my benefit of the doubt.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by Diomidis

JoePa was more than just a football coach; he was life coach, mentor, teacher, and donor. He did as much for the university, current and future students, and his players than can be measured by the title of head coach.

A friend of mine while I was in the Army (who played for JoePa) used those exact same words "LIFE COACH" to describe him. I Have not spoken to the Army Buddy in years but I know he was crushed when his mentor was fired! Penn State was JoePa's life!

May he rest in peace!

[Laz]

He made an error in judgment not to cover anything up but in the best way to handle the situation. He acknowledged that and I am sure that given the chance to do it over he would handle it differently. That event, as bad as it turned out to be, will not outweigh a career of class and integrity. It is sad that it might have accelerated his death.

[cptjohnstone]

his best quote,

"he would not retire and leave football to the likes of Barry Switzer and Jacky Sherill"

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by cptjohnstone

his best quote,

"he would not retire and leave football to the likes of Barry Switzer and Jacky Sherill"

It's Jackie Sherrill but i get what yer sayin' man.

In 1988, Sherrill's Aggies were put under probation by the NCAA for a period of two years. Violations included improper employment, extra benefits, unethical conduct and lack of institutional control.[7][8] Sherrill was not personally found guilty of any infractions. However, in December 1988, Sherrill resigned.

Sherrill retired after the 2003 season, which was followed by the NCAA levying probation for four years on the program.[10] Despite a prolonged 3 year investigation by the NCAA, Mississippi State was [11] not found guilty of any major violations, and Sherrill was never personally found guilty of any NCAA rules violations at either Mississippi State or Texas A&M.

In 1983, Switzer was civilly prosecuted for illegal insider trading by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), but defended himself as having innocently overheard the information while lounging on the bleacher behind some corporate insiders, and was found not guilty. [4] [5]

In 1989, Oklahoma was placed on probation by the NCAA [2] amidst several scandals involving Oklahoma players, including Charles Thompson's arrest for soliciting cocaine to undercover FBI agents.[6] In that same year, after sixteen years as Oklahoma's head coach, Switzer chose to resign.

Funny but i can't find one single major NCAA issue at Penn State. EVER. Short of the "General" Robert Montgomery Knight i don't think you can find a program more compliant with the NCAA, even if both of them railed against the "system" they both knew to be tainted. But Bobbo was known to choke a player once in a while. And throw chairs. And beat up a cop or two in Puerto Rico. And dump an LSU fan on his ass in a garbage can. But i digress.

Enjoy them tasty Tostitos cptjohnstone. With Bean Dip

[Guest050715-1]

Jackie Sherrill and Barry Swisher never covered up for a pedophile.

To recap the epic thread of a couple of months ago:

1. He wasn't always 80 years old if you can even use that as an excuse.
2. He openly admitted he should have done more.
3. He acted by taking the keys and telling his boss,
4. He broke the law by not reporting suspected abuse. We discussed it ad nausium in the other thread that as an educator he was legal bound to report abuse.
5. He allowed it to continue for years.

Paterno died in shame like he deserves.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Jackie Sherrill and Barry Swisher never covered up for a pedophile.

Nor did Joe Paterno

To recap the epic thread of a couple of months ago:

1. He wasn't always 80 years old if you can even use that as an excuse.
2. He openly admitted he should have done more.
3. He acted by taking the keys and telling his boss,
4. He broke the law by not reporting suspected abuse. We discussed it ad nausium in the other thread that as an educator he was legal bound to report abuse.
5. He allowed it to continue for years.

6 Paterno died in shame like he deserves.

1) No , he was 77 at the time. The assistant no longer worked for him.

2) Just as a soldier admits he should have done more to save his comrades. There is always remorse in hindsight. That is what people of honor have. Maybe that is why you are having such trouble with this concept.

Is Dakota Meyers a failure because ''he openly admitted he should have done more''?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...s-hes-no-hero/

He insists he is not a hero, but was only doing “what Marines do…I’m the furthest thing from a hero,” he says, “if this is what it feels like to be a hero you can have it.” He adds, “What gives me the right to be standing here today and not their kids? I feel like I failed them and I failed their families.”
Meyer wonders if the outcome might have been different if ”I had just done it on the first time on my instinct, maybe I could of got in there, made a difference, but like I said, you can ‘what if it’ to the max.”

3) He told the proper chain of command.

4) Never charged with that , you talked about it ad nausium because all your other points were revuted. As is this one. You are lying. Why? Why are you lying about this?

Under Pennsylvania's Child Protective Services Law, certain individuals, including teachers and school administrators, have a legal obligation to immediately report suspected child abuse to child protective services or law enforcement, or to a "person in charge" (supervisor), who must then report the alleged abuse to the authorities. The reporting must be honest. When in writing, the reporting must also include known information about the nature and extent of the suspected abuse, along with other material details.
Within one day of learning from McQueary of the alleged abuse, Paterno notified Curley, his boss. By doing so, Paterno satisfied an obligation to immediately report to a person in charge.
On the other hand, one could read the Child Protective Services Law to classify Paterno as himself a person in charge of McQueary and as one who had a subsequent obligation to report to the authorities. Still, Curley's status as Paterno's boss likely insulates Paterno from liability, at least for failing to notify child protective services or law enforcement.

5) What a whopper. He allowed no such thing.

6) People such as him should be honored people like you despise him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church


Are you a member of the Westboro Baptist Church? Do you always dishonor the dead at their funeral. Nice classy move. I should not be surprised that you could not hold your tongue but I am. Shame on me for giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by WTF

1) No , he was 77 at the time. The assistant no longer worked for him.

2) Just as a soldier admits he should have done more to save his comrades. There is always remorse in hindsight. That is what people of honor have. Maybe that is why you are having such trouble with this concept.

3) He told the proper chain of command.

4) Never charged with that , you talked about it ad nausium because all your other points were revuted.

Under Pennsylvania's Child Protective Services Law, certain individuals, including teachers and school administrators, have a legal obligation to immediately report suspected child abuse to child protective services or law enforcement, or to a "person in charge" (supervisor), who must then report the alleged abuse to the authorities. The reporting must be honest. When in writing, the reporting must also include known information about the nature and extent of the suspected abuse, along with other material details.
Within one day of learning from McQueary of the alleged abuse, Paterno notified Curley, his boss. By doing so, Paterno satisfied an obligation to immediately report to a person in charge.
On the other hand, one could read the Child Protective Services Law to classify Paterno as himself a person in charge of McQueary and as one who had a subsequent obligation to report to the authorities. Still, Curley's status as Paterno's boss likely insulates Paterno from liability, at least for failing to notify child protective services or law enforcement.

5) What a whopper. He allowed no such thing.

6) People such as him should be honored people like you despise him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church


Are you a member of the Westboro Baptist Church? Do you always dishonor the dead at their funeral. Nice classy move. I should not be surprised that you could not hold your tongue but I am. Shame on me for giving you the benefit of the doubt.

No, it's not a whopper. The molestations went back to '94 and McQueary (The witness that told Paterno.) told Paterno in '02. That was nine years before the scandal broke.

No, it was not the proper chain of command. He's an educator and was legally required to report it to the police not his boss. You're not a lawyer. You can quote all the things off you internet you want to, but it won't make them true or you right. Telling ones boss of a crime is not the same as telling the authorities. Picking at nits as usual.

If he was in his seventies, he should know to report child rapists to the police and not cover up a crime by conducting business as usual. Conversely, if he was too daft to know better about reporting a rape to the police and not covering up a crime, as you allege, he should not have had a drivers license let alone responsibility for one of the largest college ball programs in the country.

You don't refute anything. You just spout nonsense like Westboro Baptist church or whatever other bizarre nonsense that crosses your mind to throw the dogs off the scent.

Dishonor the dead at their funeral? I'm not at his funeral. Do you really want to get into a discussion about class?

Fortunately for your pride and Paterno's legacy, he had the good taste to die before the final act.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

No, it was not the proper chain of command. He's an educator and was legally required to report it to the police not his boss. You're not a lawyer.

Nor are you. That is how arrogant you are.

You are not a lawyer but you think you are the final authority on the legal matter. WTF???

All the legal experts agree that there were no laws broken , except you!

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

You can quote all the things off you internet you want to, but it won't make them true or you right. Telling ones boss of a crime is not the same as telling the authorities. Picking at nits as usual.

You might call the actual law picking at nits because you are not a lawyer!

The reason he was not charged was becaused he did not break the law. You are lying when you say he did.

the relevant Pennsylvania code:

Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

You don't refute anything. You just spout nonsense like Westboro Baptist church or whatever other bizarre nonsense that crosses your mind to throw the dogs off the scent.

Nothing like the truth to throw a bitch off the scent.

Dishonor the dead at their funeral? I'm not at his funeral. Do you really want to get into a discussion about class?

You are in a thread that was honoring him. If you do not agree then just show some class and STFU.

And no I do not want to get into a discussion about class with you. My only point was that you are not being classy by entering this thread in the way you did.

Fortunately for your pride and Paterno's legacy, he had the good taste to die before the final act.

No actually dying is the final act. Cancer does not give you a choice. Paterno did not run from anything. But you can not outrun cancer.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward
You don't refute anything. You just spout nonsense like Westboro Baptist church or whatever other bizarre nonsense that crosses your mind to throw the dogs off the scent.

Nothing like the truth to throw a bitch off the scent. – See A

Dishonor the dead at their funeral? I'm not at his funeral. Do you really want to get into a discussion about class?

You are in a thread that was honoring him. If you do not agree then just show some class and STFU. – See B

And no I do not want to get into a discussion about class with you. My only point was that you are not being classy by entering this thread in the way you did.

Fortunately for your pride and Paterno's legacy, he had the good taste to die before the final act.

Point A: What “truth” are you referring to? The truth that for nine years he worked with a child molester and did nothing but tell his boss? The truth that because he was never charged he is not guilty? The truth that if you have enough money and influence to peddle, you don’t necessarily subsume to the long arms of the law? Which one?

You always think you are slam-dunking when in fact you are just spouting your never changing opinions.

Point B: This is a discussion board. You think I’m the first one that will chime in that he was sanctioning pedophilia? I’ll bet I’m not.


Olivia, you look foolish. He was never charged because he did not break the law. You are lying by saying he did.

A: Since when did not being charge have anything to do with breaking or not breaking the law? You’re smarter than that.

B. You don’t know what did or didn’t go on. You aren’t the DA in county XYX in PA. Here’s the story where he hired an attorney that represented H.W. That’s gotta come pretty cheap. Who knows what deal may or may not have been cut or would have been cut. You don’t know. I don’t know. And now that he’s dead, no one will know.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...efense-lawyer/

Originally Posted by WTF

No actually dying is the final act. Cancer does not give you a choice. Paterno did not run from anything. But you can not outrun cancer.

Ran? No! He was a coward that hid from the truth. Hoped it would either go away or just stop. All the while, he was a powerful individual that could have ended the suffering of children with one phone call. He was a bastard and a coward.