Trump refuses to discuss Putin's aggression

[pertpvyztrzv]

I also said, "and others" but you were the only coherent one to answer.

Not move an inch. If peace requires an inch, you'd rather the country you're not living in go up in flames. Yup, sounds familiar. Foreign Legion is hiring, pretty sure their KB Warrior jobs are filled.

Tariffs are a tool and used to negotiate with individual countries.

Everyone seems to forget that Russia has nukes and hyper sonic missiles we can't shoot down.

Not a single reason has ever been mentioned (I could have missed it, enlighten me), why Russia is supposed to be our enemy, except Neocons and the MIC say so.

If the only answer is Russia killed people. So the USA hasn't?

Sanctions didn't work so well and weaponizing the dollar (limiting Russia's dollar access) only created BRICS. Energy, nope, Once we start pumping our own oil, the supply increases and the price drops, which hurts Russia. Drop it too much and it hurts producers here.

So not the weapon it used to be. Which ultimately leads to nowhere besides another stalemate and Russia's still the boogeyman like everyone wants.

Everyone needs a boogeyman to hate. They don't know why, but they can scream at a screen like 1984.

It's okay for Hillary to like Putin and do the whole reset thing in 2009, but not Trump. Got it. Hillary: Let's try trade and diplomacy. Yea, she's such a stateswoman and diplomat. Hillary's awesome!

Trump: Let's stop the killing. Trumps a pussy and Putin's puppet. No reason, just because it's Trump and we're told we have to hate Trump.

whatever.

[HDGristle]

In all that meandering, you didn't get there.

Try again

[Lucas McCain]

My sons don't speak poorly about me. I'm their daddy and they look up to me. I expect that from them. That's how I raised them... I give Trump a pass for not speaking poorly of his Russian daddy. That's how well Putin has raised him over the years.

Trump is a deer in headlights with Putin. Trump is so narcissistic and dumb that a smart guy like Putin has to spend little effort to make him his bitch. All he has to do is act like he respects Trump, and he'll fall for it hook, line and sinker... basically, just make him think you kissed the ring, but you don't have to actually kiss it.

Zelensky didn't kiss the ring, so that desperate motherfucker wasn't even fed lunch. Hopefully, Trump gave him a to go box before he kicked him out. Haha

[pertpvyztrzv]

Not move an inch. If peace requires an inch, you'd rather the country you're not living in go up in flames. /crickets/

all i need to know.

[VitaMan]

[HDGristle]

Originally Posted by pertpvyztrzv

Not move an inch. If peace requires an inch, you'd rather the country you're not living in go up in flames. /crickets/

all i need to know.

Probe deeper. Is the inch about a deal or is the inch about who's the aggressor?

Identify a large pool of assets that Russia wants back.

Think about what happens if we move some people around while we work with our allies and present a united front.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

"Trump refuses to discuss Putin's aggression"

Learn the difference between aggression and retaliation.
Try to bone-up on disinformation also.

This coming from a Professor at UT Austin of all liberal places.

Sadly, Trump is right on Ukraine
by Alan J. Kuperman, opinion contributor - 03/18/25 4:00 PM ET

I rarely agree with President Trump, but his latest controversial statements about Ukraine are mostly true. They seem preposterous only because western audiences have been fed a steady diet of disinformation about Ukraine for more than a decade. It is time to set the record straight on three key points that illuminate why Ukrainians and former President Joe Biden — not merely Russian President Vladimir Putin — bear significant responsibility for the outbreak and perpetuation of war in Ukraine.

First, as recently documented by overwhelming forensic evidence, and affirmed even by a Kyiv court, it was Ukrainian right-wing militants who started the violence in 2014 that provoked Russia’s initial invasion of the country’s southeast including Crimea. Back then, Ukraine had a pro-Russia president, Viktor Yanukovych, who had won free and fair elections in 2010 with strong support from ethnic Russians in the country’s southeast.

In 2013, he decided to pursue economic cooperation with Russia rather than Europe as previously planned. Pro-western activists responded with mainly peaceful occupation of the capital’s Maidan square and government offices, until the president eventually offered substantial concessions in mid-February 2014, after which they mainly withdrew.

Just then, however, right-wing militants overlooking the square started shooting Ukrainian police and remaining protesters. Police returned fire at the militants, who then claimed bogusly that the police had killed the unarmed protesters. Outraged by this ostensible government massacre, Ukrainians descended on the capital and ousted the president, who fled to Russia for protection.

Putin responded by deploying troops to Crimea and weapons to the southeast Donbas region on behalf of ethnic Russians who felt their president had been undemocratically overthrown. While this backstory does not justify Russia’s invasion, it explains that it was hardly “unprovoked.”

Second, Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky contributed to a wider war by violating peace deals with Russia and seeking NATO military aid and membership. The deals, known as Minsk 1 and 2, had been negotiated under his predecessor President Petro Poroshenko in 2014 and 2015 to end fighting in the southeast and protect endangered troops.

Ukraine was to guarantee Donbas limited political autonomy by the end of 2015, which Putin believed would be sufficient to prevent Ukraine from joining — or serving as a military base for — NATO. Regrettably, Ukraine refused for seven years to fulfill that commitment.

Zelensky even campaigned in 2019 on a promise to finally implement the accords to prevent further war. But after winning election, he reneged, apparently less concerned about risking war than looking weak on Russia.

Zelensky instead increased weapons imports from NATO countries, which was the last straw for Putin. So, on Feb. 21, 2022, Russia recognized the independence of Donbas, deployed troops there for “peacekeeping,” and demanded Zelensky renounce his quest for NATO military assistance and membership.

When Zelensky again refused, Putin massively expanded his military offensive on Feb. 24. Intentionally or not, Zelensky had provoked Russian aggression, although that obviously does not excuse Moscow’s subsequent war crimes.

Third, Joe Biden too contributed crucially to the escalation and perpetuation of fighting. In late 2021, when Putin mobilized forces on Ukraine’s border and demanded implementation of the Minsk deals, it seemed obvious that unless Zelensky relented, Russia would invade to at least form a land bridge between Donbas and Crimea.

Considering that Ukraine already was existentially dependent on U.S. military assistance, if President Biden had insisted that Zelensky comply with Putin’s request, it would have happened. Instead, Biden lamentably left the decision to Zelensky and pledged that if Russia invaded, the U.S. would respond “swiftly and decisively,” which Zelensky read as a green light to defy Putin.

Had Trump been president, he likely would not have provided such a blank check, so Zelensky would have had little choice but to implement the Minsk deals to avert war. Even if Zelensky had still refused and provoked Russia to invade, Trump would have denied him a veto over peace negotiations, which Biden recklessly gave by declaring, “There’s nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine.”

That pledge tragically emboldened Ukraine to prolong the war in expectation of eventually decisive U.S. military aid, which Biden then refused to supply due to fear of nuclear escalation. In that way, Biden raised false hopes in Ukraine, needlessly perpetuating a war that has killed or wounded hundreds of thousands in the last two years alone during which the frontlines have shifted by less than 1 percent of Ukraine’s territory.

The basic outlines of a deal to end the fighting are obvious even if details remain to be negotiated, as Trump and Putin started doing today in a phone call. Russia will continue to occupy Crimea and other portions of the southeast, while the rest of Ukraine will not join NATO but will get security guarantees from some western countries. The sad thing is that such a plan could have been achieved at least two years ago if only President Biden had made military aid conditional on Zelensky negotiating a ceasefire.

Even more tragic, whatever peace deal emerges after the war will be worse for Ukraine than the Minsk accords that Zelensky foolishly abandoned due to his political ambitions and naïve expectation of bottomless U.S. support.

Alan J. Kuperman is a professor at the University of Texas at Austin, where he teaches courses on military strategy and conflict management.

[HDGristle]

How very pro-Moscow

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by HDGristle

How very pro-Moscow

So TL;DR. Just say so. They say you are what you eat/drink. Do others already know you as the Kool-Aid Kid? I don't keep track of pronouns, Indian Names, nicknames and monikers very well.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

"Trump refuses to discuss Putin's aggression"

Learn the difference between aggression and retaliation.
Try to bone-up on disinformation also.

This coming from a Professor at UT Austin of all liberal places.

A couple of comments on your article WYID. First, yes there are ultranationalists in Ukraine who have persecuted pro-Russian Ukrainians. I provided an example while you were gone, from someone I work with:

Originally Posted by Tiny

The following is from an Email from a work colleague who has an ex business partner, of Russian ancestry, who grew up in Donbas. Some of the partner's family still lives there. Perhaps this will help you understand why I believe what I do. I've blanked out some names to avoid outing him or me.

*****'s extended family, Aunts and Uncles and cousins live in ************** under the jack-boot of the Ukrainian Army and last time I heard feed-back about six months ago, they were fearing for their lives daily. Skin-heads patrol the streets and pistol whip any dissenters. They are afraid to speak Russian as they have a mixed Russian and Cossack heritage. (******'s Mum and Dad live between Moscow and ************ where they are rotational workers on ********* projects). *******'s aunt and uncles and cousins have been living in their respective basements for a few years now, one cousin died of a heart attack last year (only 40 years old). ******** was devastated, it's all very sad for Ukrainians to be thrust into a major war with one of the most effective yet brutal armies historically and the west pouring weapons in, to 'save Ukraine just increases the misery of the people who can't do much as they don't live in a democracy as we understand it.

He subsequently told me his business partners relatives were excited, because the Russian army was getting closer and would soon liberate them. That was approximately 5 months ago, and they're still fighting it out around their town. This has turned into World War I trench warfare. Neither side is advancing much, but the wind is definitely at the Russians' back. Time for peace.

Also, I believe that the pro-Russian militias in Donbas started with no help from the Russian government. As they built up steam and gathered support from Russian nationalists, the government did start supporting the militias. It was a case of the tail wagging the dog.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Tiny

...I believe that the pro-Russian militias in Donbas started with no help from the Russian government. As they built up steam and gathered support from Russian nationalists, the government did start supporting the militias. It was a case of the tail wagging the dog.

Imma thunk'n it was a case if miss-interpretation of a bear growling to let ya know to cut it the heck-fire out. But nooooo... keep kicking it. There's an Olde Russian saying for that:

[HDGristle]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

So TL;DR. Just say so. They say you are what you eat/drink. Do others already know you as the Kool-Aid Kid? I don't keep track of pronouns, Indian Names, nicknames and monikers very well.

Oh, I read the whole thing and it's laden with Kremlin talking points and middling logic used to rationalize aggression.

The retaliation part doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Vlad doesn't feel Ukraine is a sovereign nation to begin with. He told us that. Once his puppet was removed, he moved to take the prize he needed to launch further aggression. Then supported the breakaway areas and fomented further unrest to build up the pretense for invasion.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

During the Zelenskyy visit, Trump is asked questions about Putin and Russian aggression.
He refuses to answer. He won't even acknowledge Putin is a dictator.


What hes says is he can't be talking down Putin when he is trying to put a deal together to
end the Ukraine conflict. He says he must talk nice to able to negotiate and get a deal done.


Is there truth to this ? Or is Trump just doing the usual Trump act....

Seriously! This thing was suppose to be squashed DAY 1 of entering the WH. Coming on quarter of a year now. When will the maggies open their eyes.

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Trump is like jealous of Zelensky. He’s jealous that Zelensky stands up to bullies and calls Putin for what he is. Trump lacks the backbone to do so. The only strategy Trump knows is bully someone that he thinks he has leverage over and kids the ass if anyone he fears.

He’s never once shown that he’s an astute negotiator or leader. It’s really sad.

True Dat. He can only pick on little people. Ask Yemen. He was all blusterous in announcing what he did. A little too mouthy. He is a serious security risk. All details of that leaked out before action. But I side track about his abilities and leadership qualities.

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Getting back to discussing Putin's agression....

There's nothing to discuss, cause everyone's aware of it.
Putting it on public broadcast is not the way to make deals.
Trump was correct that Ukraine has no cards to play in that political bluff poker game where Ukraine's natural resources are in the pot for the big boys to divy up.

You can still be in the game with no cards. How long was the Assad regime in power? But than again, Zelensky didn't make his opponents disappear in the middle of the night like some people do.

Originally Posted by HDGristle

Personal and business connections, and strong belief in protecting an ally rather than kowtowing to an enemy. My connections and relationships go back decades.

I also come from a town with a healthy and thriving pop with Ukrainian heritage.

And I have lost some very important people there in 2014, 2023 and 2024.

https://www.eccie.net/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=17

There are no talking point you can use that will move my needle. It's not difficult to oppose Putin. Unless you're Donald Trump

I'm sorry about the loss of your friends.
Seems maggies don't understand how Americans of the past stood up for the little guy. Especially the one that tried to keep his people calm and when troops were being amassed around his board and when no provocation occurred, they came over anyway.

We have seriously lost purity of purpose in this country.