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Old 02-24-2013, 11:49 AM   #31
joe bloe
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Unless substantial cuts in spending are done soon, this country will be ruined. It's become obvious, the federal government is not going to make any significant cuts in spending.

We are witnessing a form of mass suicide.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:33 PM   #32
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mass suicide?

Talk about freaking out!!!
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:23 PM   #33
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Reminds me of Y2K. Lots of hair pulling and in the end little to no problem.

These cuts will not be the disaster Obama is claiming. If bad things do occur it will be his own fault since he runs the the agencies and can impact how the cuts are applied.

As for those worrying about the loss of government jobs hurting the economy you have to remember that money spent by the government ultimately suppresses economic activity which costs even more jobs.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:55 PM   #34
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Default "Much Ado About Nothing"

Why close airports? FAA’s annual budget for ‘consultants, travel’ is larger than sequestration cuts
February 23, 2013 Joel Gehrke Commentary Writer The Washington Examiner

"Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood threatened to shut down airports if Congress does not undo sequestration, even though the Federal Aviation Administration annual budget for consultants, travel, and supplies is larger than the sequester cut."

http://washingtonexaminer.com/why-cl...stom_click=rss

See also @: http://www.eccie.net/showpost.php?p=...9&postcount=10
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:55 PM   #35
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Excellent update on the sequester, from Politico!

The GOP's sequester messaging muddle

By: Ginger Gibson
February 24, 2013 03:53 PM EST

The Republicans’ message on the sequester couldn’t be clearer: They don’t have a unified one.

There seem to be three distinct camps: Most congressional Republicans appear willing to let the sequester happen since they can’t replace it in time. Others want the cuts to be even deeper. And still others wish that House Speaker John Boehner and President Barack Obama would just get in the same room and negotiate a deal, even if it includes the tax hikes that most Republicans abhor.

But in the spin war with Obama — who has had one consistent message of late: that the massive, across-the-board spending cuts set to take effect March 1 will gut cherished programs — the message muddle has put the GOP at a disadvantage.

Even GOP strategist Karl Rove wrote last week in The Wall Street Journal that “congressional Republicans are simultaneously united divided and confused” about the sequester.

And so far, any attempts the Republicans have made to take their case to voters don’t seem to be working and the public is placing the blame squarely on them. Of course, it remains to be seen just what kind of real-world effects the sequester wreaks, or whether it becomes more of a yawn than a crisis to voters.

But a recent poll by USA Today and Pew Research Center found 49 percent of those surveyed would blame congressional Republicans if a deal isn’t struck, compared to 31 percent who would blame Obama and 11 percent who would think it’s both of their faults.

“To win public opinion to their side, Republicans will need a proactive strategy that shows the GOP is committed to restrain spending, make cuts as smartly as possible, and keep the government running,” Rove wrote in the WSJ. “It won’t be easy, given the president’s intrinsic advantages and bigger megaphone.”

The cards aren’t stacked against Republicans this time, GOP strategist Joe Brettell argued, explaining the lawmakers should stop using Capitol Hill press conferences and “take a page from the President’s playbook” to go directly to voters.

“Members need to cite specific examples in their local and regional media of places where the government has spent taxpayer money in an inefficient or wasteful manner,” Brettell said. “Linking the idea that this fight is about their constituent’s household budget, as well as their concern over the ballooning deficit, will ensure that the GOP wins not only the media battle, but conversations over water coolers and kitchen tables in their district.”

Here’s a look at the various GOP arguments:

Let the cuts happen

House Speaker John Boehner and the House GOP leadership represent the largest GOP faction — those who wish there was a better way to slash the deficit, but barring that, are willing to let the across-the-board cuts take effect on Friday as planned.

These Republicans have loudly tried to lay the blame on Obama’s doorstep, promoting the cuts as Obama’s sequester at every opportunity and using the #obamaquester hashtag on Twitter. They got an assist this weekend from Bob Woodward when he wrote that Obama and his aides were responsible for the original sequester idea, and had “moved the goal posts” by insisting that tax hikes be part of any solution.

Republicans also argued they’ve voted twice — in May and December of last year — to replace the sequester with other cuts. Now, they say, it’s Obama and Democrats’ turn.

“In a bit of irony, President [Barack] Obama stood Tuesday with first responders who could lose their jobs if the policy goes into effect,” Boehner wrote in the WSJ last week. “What they might not realize from Mr. Obama’s statements is that it is a product of the president’s own failed leadership.”

This pro-sequester group includes GOPers like Reps. Lynn Westmoreland (Ga.), Mike Turner (Ohio) and Mike Pompeo (Kan.), who have all said they prefer a different way to cut government spending. But if there’s not a solution on the table by March 1, they think the sequester should be implemented.

Pompeo told POLITICO on Feb. 13 that the sequester would be a “home run” politically for House Republicans if it was implemented.

“The sequester is here, it’s time. We got to get these spending reductions in place,” said the Kansas Republican.

“We have a spending reduction plan and for the first time we’re going to follow through on it…On March 2, we’ll wake up and the American people will have tremendous respect for what its House of Representatives led,” he added.

The sequester is fine, but it could go deeper

Another group is made up of people like Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), who has been loudly proclaiming that the cuts are not nearly deep enough.

“It’s a pittance. I mean, it’s a slowdown in the rate of growth. There are no real cuts happening over 10 years,” Paul said on CNN this week of the sequester.

Paul is getting plenty of airtime on cable channels to promote his views, which may leave some with the impression that he’s speaking for Republicans on the subject. He was chastised by a Princeton scientist for mocking a government study of goldfish that Paul said was intended to learn about democracy.

“I think the sequester happens and it will be in some ways a yawn because the histrionics that are coming from the president saying, ‘Oh, we’re going to shut down and get rid of meat inspectors’ — I mean, is anybody not going to stand up and call his bluff on that ridiculousness?” Paul added.

Let’s make a deal

A third GOP faction includes Republicans like Rep. Scott Rigell (R-Va.), who has a large naval shipyard in his district that Obama is visiting next week.

Rigell is practically begging for Republicans to go back to the table with Obama, and hasn’t ruled out tax increases as part of any deal like the rest of his party.

“I do believe that a position … of any agreement that has one dollar of revenue is, to use the phrase Senator Reid is so fond of, is dead on arrival, I don’t think that’s a wise position and I don’t hold that position and I think we should be ready to consider alternatives that may be at first glance something that we wouldn’t support outright,” Rigell told POLITICO. “I just want to get something on the table. I’m a business person.”

Some Republicans sound frustrated by their own party’s handling of the issue.

Conservative Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) raised eyebrows at a Michigan townhall last week when he said that he would vote against any plan, including from his own party, to replace the sequester that didn’t maintain the current cuts.

“They’ve been throwing this at the Democrats, saying we put two proposals on the table to replace the sequester,” Amash said, according to the Grand Rapid News. “No, we haven’t.”

Amash argued that the GOP’s sequester alternative — which the party notes it passed twice in the last Congress — would instead spread spending cuts out over several years, leading to what he said would be spending increases. If the GOP proposes such a bill, the Michigan lawmaker says he’ll vote no.

© 2013 POLITICO LLC
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...993.html?hp=t1
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:22 PM   #36
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Exclamation Meat Ax

The sequester is a meat ax approach to the economic problem.

. . . Congress should instead be using a scalpel to trim the budget judiciously if only they could cooperate with the White House, but that seems to be asking too much of these rowdy bunch.


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Old 02-24-2013, 04:45 PM   #37
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No real cuts are going to take place at all. None! Only a decrease in the planned increase. The military gets a double whammy because projected spending already included a drastic drawdown of forces in the Middle East.

You want to talk about tax increases to solve our problems;I have an answer. Make everyone pay taxes, even if it is only one dollar and then we will have an engaged voting populous that will reign in spending.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oden View Post
No real cuts are going to take place at all. None! Only a decrease in the planned increase. The military gets a double whammy because projected spending already included a drastic drawdown of forces in the Middle East.

You want to talk about tax increases to solve our problems;I have an answer. Make everyone pay taxes, even if it is only one dollar and then we will have an engaged voting populous that will reign in spending.
Dr Ben Carson's speech was in the news recently. He's the director of Pediatric Nuerosurgery at John's Hopkins Hospital. Dr Carson says a flat tax, where everyone pays ten percent, might be the best solution. It's based on the Biblical principle of the tithe. If you make twenty thousand, you pay two thousand. If you make twenty million, you pay two million.

I personally think anyone paying no income tax and living on welfare, should not be allowed to vote. We would finally be able to deal with so called "entitlement spending" if we didn't let the beggars be choosers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFb6NU1giRA
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:16 PM   #39
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before i reply to some posts,

put your money where you mouth is, have a look at the US Budget and propose where you would cut spending and/or raise revenue to close the proposed 2013 deficit of around $900 billion!!!!!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Overview
see Summary Tables file at end of list.

Budget of The United States Government At the General Printing Office
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/coll...ionCode=BUDGET

for background http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...federal_budget


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Gunn View Post
The dreaded sequester seems to be looming large.
Who was the dumb ass that came up with this odious thing staring us in the face?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
Yeah, too bad it was Barack Hussein Obama who came up with the idea of sequestration.

He was just SURE the Republicans would cave in and let him continue spending like a Democratic Congressman. (Drunk sailors on liberty stop spending when they run out of money. Democratic Congressmen NEVER stop spending.)
hey now, dont give drunk sailors a bad name!! :^)

regardless of who came up w/ the idea to put it into that bill, [according to the somewhat reliable Wikipedia, ] the US Congress passed the Budget Control Act of 2011 and Pres. Obama signed it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_Control_Act_of_2011

62% of the house voted for the act. 72% of house republicans voted Yes; 49% of house democrats voted Yes.
74% of the senate voted for the act. 59% of senate republicans voted Yes; 88% of senate democrats voted Yes.
while one can twist and bend numbers all they want, numbers dont lie!

from the wikipedia page ...
(( The debt ceiling was increased by $400 billion immediately.

Spending was reduced more than the increase in the debt limit. No tax increases or other forms of increases in revenue above current law were included in the bill.

The bill directly specified $917 billion of cuts over 10 years in exchange for the initial debt limit increase of $900 billion. This is the first installment ("tranche") of cuts. $21 billion of this will be applied in the FY2012 budget.

The agreement also specified an incentive for Congress to act. If Congress failed to produce a deficit reduction bill with at least $1.2 trillion in cuts, then Congress could grant a $1.2 trillion increase in the debt ceiling but this would trigger across-the-board cuts ("sequestrations") (*), as of January 2, 2013. These cuts would apply to mandatory and discretionary spending in the years 2013 to 2021 and be in an amount equal to the difference between $1.2 trillion and the amount of deficit reduction enacted from the joint committee. There would be some exemptions: reductions would apply to Medicare providers, but not to Social Security, Medicaid, civil and military employee pay, or veterans. Medicare benefits would be limited to a 2% reduction.

(*) The sequestration mechanism would be the same as what was used before in the Balanced Budget Act of 1997.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance...et_Act_of_1997 ))


Quote:
Originally Posted by I B Hankering View Post
Sequester is a gimmick bought into by both parties.
or at least agreed to based on the 2011 vote.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chica Chaser View Post
That dumbass would be your guy, Barack H. Obama, direct from his mouthpiece Jay Carney

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...0da_print.html
selected quotes...
(( Nabors has told others that they checked with the president before going to see Reid. A mandatory sequester was the only action-forcing mechanism they could devise. Nabors has said, “We didn’t actually think it would be that hard to convince them” — Reid and the Republicans — to adopt the sequester. “It really was the only thing we had. There was not a lot of other options left on the table.

A majority of Republicans did vote for the Budget Control Act that summer, which included the sequester. Key Republican staffers said they didn’t even initially know what a sequester was — because the concept stemmed from the budget wars of the 1980s, when they were not in government.

At the Feb. 13 Senate Finance Committee hearing on Lew’s nomination to become Treasury secretary, Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) asked Lew about the account in my book: “Woodward credits you with originating the plan for sequestration. Was he right or wrong?”

“It’s a little more complicated than that,” Lew responded, “and even in his account, it was a little more complicated than that. We were in a negotiation where the failure would have meant the default of the government of the United States.”

“Did you make the suggestion?” Burr asked.

“Well, what I did was said that with all other options closed, we needed to look for an option where we could agree on how to resolve our differences. And we went back to the 1984 plan that Senator [Phil] Gramm and Senator [Warren] Rudman worked on and said that that would be a basis for having a consequence that would be so unacceptable to everyone that we would be able to get action.”
))

so, based on that reporting, one might surmise/guess that the Republicans did NOT have any other options or suggestions or proposals for how to force the US Congress and the President to work to craft an agreed-upon [i wont say bi-partisan] budget revision that included spending cuts and/or revenue increases.

and it appears/read that the Republicans didnt know what it was.
surely they could have at least googled it or had their staff research it!!!
if bob woodward could find this out, why couldnt the smart Republicans???

so, it sounds like the Rep. didnt have an alterative, voted for a bill that reduced spending more than the $400 billion increase in the debt limit, contained an alternative for enforcing cuts, plus set up the Super Committee.

now, some people are complaining about the sequestration alternative that the Obama team came up with!!
and some people are claiming that Obama "lied" about who came up with it [Phil Gramm and Warren Rudman, if you believe Lew].

and doing so WITHOUT putting forth any real alternative!!!

so, Republicans, if you're going to complain about something or say there is a problem, come up w/ some solid alternatives to solve the problem
that is, step up to the plate with a real bat instead of complaining that the pitcher is throwing spitballs and, oh yeah, i dont know what a spitball is.


also from the Woodward article...
(( So when the president asks that a substitute for the sequester include not just spending cuts but also new revenue, he is moving the goal posts. His call for a balanced approach is reasonable, and he makes a strong case that those in the top income brackets could and should pay more. But that was not the deal he made. ))

ok, so maybe it wasnt the deal he made. but if your opponent is resolute in their position and doesnt seem to want to budge, do you keep with the same deal that was originally put forth? or do you say, "ok, that one's dead. here is another deal!" ?

i dont think this is an issue of trust.
it's an issue of negotiation.
and both sides are doing a real crappy job of negotiating a budget agreement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joe bloe View Post
Unless substantial cuts in spending are done soon, this country will be ruined. It's become obvious, the federal government is not going to make any significant cuts in spending.

We are witnessing a form of mass suicide.
we'll i wouldnt call it mass suicide.
cos not everyone has a gun! :^)


this, from the wikipedia article, is enlightening...
(( The act will not actually reduce the nominal U.S. debt over the 10-year period. But it will reduce the real (inflation adjusted) growth of the debt, by reducing real Federal spending (the amount of spending with inflation included). However, every plan will increase or keep constant nominal spending. That is partly because the cuts due to the act will not reduce federal spending in contemporary dollars, but rather reduce the year-to-year increases in spending from what had previously been anticipated. Even with the slowdown, both federal spending and the debt were still projected to grow faster than the U.S. economy, due to the cost curve effects of health care, which the act does not address. However, it is hoped that an independent cost-cutting board created by the Affordable Care and Patient Protection Act will begin to reduce per capita health spending once it is implemented in 2014. ))
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:41 PM   #40
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Default A Debate Unworthy of a Great Nation

This is a debate that's completely unworthy of a great nation. The very idea of this "sequester" gimmick is obviously ridiculous, so it's no surprise that Obama would try to deny its paternity. For their part, congressional Republicans have not exactly covered themselves with glory. They voted for this lemon, so now they have to accept co-ownership. So now we'll probably just engage in "government by gimmickry," and lurch from crisis to crisis. Like the "fiscal cliff" standoff of a couple of months ago, this latest stunt is just another manifestation of a staggeringly incompetent and irresponsible government.

It's easy to just reflexively say that since the budget has been bloated beyond all reason over the last four years, it should be easy to find a couple of percentage points to cut. After all, we've increased federal government spending by about 30% since 2007. But even so, I think what's most important is the trajectory. We simply must put our fisc on a glideslope to sustainability.

Earlier in this thread, the OP stated that Obama proffered a "fair plan." But the entirety of his plan is to raise taxes on high income earners as much as possible, while refusing to agree to cut much of anything -- now or in the future. That's just demagoguery designed to appeal to ignorant simpletons suffereing from severe cases of innumeracy.

This is a nation adrift without serious leadership. If we had real leaders, we'd see the following:

There would be a discussion of serious tax reform. Our 67,000 page tax code is a national disgrace that's been junked up with more and more crap every year for the last 25 years.

We would fix trade policy. Free trade is wonderful in theory, and works well when trading partners aspire to similar levels of wages, benefits, regulatory structures, etc. But when that's not the case, serious economic consequences can arise. We do not produce and export enough relative to what we borrow and import.

We would get serious about health care reform in such a way that we could offer non-budget-busting coverage to our less fortunate citizens. As it stands now, no one has any incentive to control costs. Our "reform" plan of a couple of years ago is a horrific clusterfuck whose costs and mandates will long continue to hamper prospects for growth if we don't change course. A large portion of the plan's implementation begins next year. It's not going to be a pretty picture.

We would get serious about financial reform. Dodd-Frank does more harm than good and will hamper prospects for the smaller community banks that are typically the lifeblood of small business. And it doesn't do anything about TBTF. The nation's largest half-dozen banks are about 60% bigger than they were five years ago. And the biggest players can still play "heads we win, tails taxpayers lose" games with lots of other people's money. Almost nothing has been fixed and systemic risk is still very high. The probabilty of exogenous shocks to the system and various "Black Swan" events has not abated.

There would be a serious push toward normalization of monetary policy. Years of ZIRP and QE have been nirvana for many of our largest banks and corporations, but not so good for most American families. That probably succeeded in making the economy a little better in the short run, but at the risk of making it suffer through years of problems as all the accommodation is unwound, as eventually it must be.

Over the last four years, we've seen an unprecedented amount of monetary and fiscal stimulus. The fact that we're still stuck in a slow growth mode should offer the first clue that our economy is suffering from structural problems that are not being addressed.

That's just a few key items. There are plenty more issues that should be discussed by our political leaders, but probably won't be.

That's the painful price we pay for electing a bunch of political hacks (in both parties) who don't give a rat's ass about anything other than winning battles against those on the other side.
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:48 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Gunn View Post
Well, I was sure that someone would be itching to throw this thing back in my face when I posted it, but didn't think a mod would be so eager to stir up shit.


Stirring up shit? I'm only quoting the facts. If you decide those facts are incorrect, give me your best shot back.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:28 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight View Post
That's the painful price we pay for electing a bunch of political hacks (in both parties) who don't give a rat's ass about anything other than winning battles against those on the other side.
You said it!

+1
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:02 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chica Chaser View Post
Stirring up shit? I'm only quoting the facts. If you decide those facts are incorrect, give me your best shot back.
Watch out CC, don't drop a bar of soap, and bend over to pick it up, fg has a stiffy for ya....lmmfao
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:11 PM   #44
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Mods are people, too. I think.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:15 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by seedman55 View Post
Watch out CC, don't drop a bar of soap, and bend over to pick it up, fg has a stiffy for ya....lmmfao
I don't think so!
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