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dirty dog · 07-02-2010, 10:39 AM

I just dont understand the hatred on both sides, I can disagree with you and as long as you dont get personal and insult my wife or kids, I dont get mad even when I forcefully disagree, its not anger. Some of these guys have a lot of hate and anger in them and I am talking about both sides. Oh well welcome to, modern America.

Longermonger · 07-03-2010, 04:27 AM

Hello.
I'd like to use the word "progressive" to describe Senator Byrd. From his humble beginnings as a hillbilly from West Virginia and being on the wrong side with the KKK to becoming a powerful senator and getting 100% approval from the NAACP on his voting record. This man died a better man than the man he was some 70 years ago.

"Of the record-setting 18,500-plus Senate votes Byrd cast, he said his biggest regret was opposing the 1964 Civil Rights Act, a landmark law that brought down barriers for black Americans."

"Byrd explicitly renounced his earlier views on racial segregation.[59][60] Byrd had said that he regretted filibustering and voting against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 [27] and would change it if he had the opportunity. He stated that joining the KKK was "the greatest mistake I ever made."[59] Byrd also said that his views changed dramatically after his teenage grandson was killed in a 1982 traffic accident, which put him in a deep emotional valley. "The death of my grandson caused me to stop and think," said Byrd, adding he came to realize that black people love their children as much as he does his."

As for the pork, guilty as charged. To the victor go the spoils. But don't blame the player, blame the game. He was just good at the game.

lacrew_2000 · 07-05-2010, 08:56 AM

Byrd was a product of his upbringing, environment, generation...whatever you want to call it....he holds the distinction of being the only senator to vote against confirmation of both Marshall and Thomas to the SCOTUS. His written word was very clear on his opinions.

Maybe he changed later in life, that's fine. I don't hold a grudge against the guy...growing up in the deep south myself, I saw many of the older generation were racist...its just the way it is.

I think what irks people is how his past has been treated...almost like it never happened. I was encouraged to see it was mentioned by many news outlets, and even by Clinton at his funeral. I recently read a story about a WWII museum in England. They have a cutout of Winston Churchill at the door, in an iconic photograph...but they photoshopped out his cigar. I don't think whitewashing history is a good thing, as it makes the cliche about repeating it even more likely. So I'm glad that Byrd's history wasn't completely whitewashed. His past happened, and we shouldn't be afraid to talk about it.

Jimmiwad · 07-05-2010, 09:43 AM

Another so called "career politician" bites the dust. Now don't you really think the ole boy stayed a bit too long, like 30 years. That is exactly what ails this country, these career politicians who care more about getting reelected than what is good for the country. What exactly did Mr Byrd do constructive for the USA other than pour unnecessary money into West Va. None of them have the balls including Mr Byrd to make the hard decisions...

Longermonger · 07-06-2010, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmiwad

What exactly did Mr Byrd do constructive for the USA other than pour unnecessary money into West Va.

Last time I looked, West Virginia is IN the United States. And you don't hear West Virginians complaining about him. They like him so much they kept sending him back to Washington over and over again for longer than you've been alive. (maybe)

As for the rest of the United States, do some research and get back to us. He voted over 18 THOUSAND times. I'm sure that some of those votes were on national issues, not just West Va.

lacrew_2000 · 07-06-2010, 08:18 AM

I think the big lesson from Byrd's long tenure is the problem with earmarks and pork. During one of the presidential debates, McCain said he would get rid of earmarks. Obama pointed out (correctly) that earmarks are a very small fraction of the federal budget.

But...if you look at how it influences votes, earmarks have a much larger impact....

...and even though congress/senate have very low approval ratings, incumbants still do very well...."I don't like congress, but my guy is OK because he brought us fill in the blank project"....

Robert Byrd may have been palatable to the people of WV 40 years ago. I suspect that if he had run for the very first time in 2008, he would not have been elected...his history would not have been in line with modern day values. So, why did WV keep putting up with him? Easy, the power of incumbancy. I would love for politicians to get serious about ending pork projects...and I think the passing of Byrd is a great time to get started...or 30 years from now, we'll be wondering 'how in the hell did fill in the blank senator stay in for so long'.

Term limits, either voluntary or mandatory, would be a good start also. In particular, the House of Representatives was supposed to be a temporary 2 year gig, where somebody took a break from their normal profession to serve....not at all the system now in place.

dirty dog · 07-06-2010, 10:34 AM

Correct me if I am wrong but would the job of a senator be to represent the people of the state the represent, arnt all senators trying to obtain opportunities, projects and money for their state, isnt that their job.

kcbigpapa · 07-06-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Correct me if I am wrong but would the job of a senator be to represent the people of the state the represent, arnt all senators trying to obtain opportunities, projects and money for their state, isnt that their job.

That depends on one thing DD... the poster's political stance. If it is a senator in the same party as the poster, it is ok for them to bring pork to their state. If it is a senator in the opposite party as the poster, then the senator is a no good, lying, scamming, pork spending mofo.

dirty dog · 07-06-2010, 10:56 AM

AHHHHH I get it lol

lacrew_2000 · 07-06-2010, 12:19 PM

Sure a senator is supposed to look out for his own state's interest...but its the nature of an earmark that is almost criminal. If one were to tour the state of WV and find one of many buildings with Byrd's name on it, it would be very difficult to actually find where the funding for the building was authorized.,,,tucked away, tacked on at the last minute to a voice vote for naming a post office or something like that.

Lets have up or down, non voice votes, specifically for each pork project. That way we'll know if our senator voted yes or no to improve ADA access for a pool and ice skating rink in PA...under the current system, everybody just stands around with their shoulders shrugged.

It is, after all, our money. Shouldn't we be able to figure who spent it?

catnipdipper · 07-06-2010, 12:28 PM

May I assume that openess on Pork Ear Marks will also mean that you will agree to remove anonymous holds in the Senate?

dirty dog · 07-06-2010, 02:03 PM

My personal belief is that each item should be voted on independently. There should be no earmarks or porked tacked to any bill. But that would neve happen because it would mean more work for the fat cats and they might to put in a few more hours.

lacrew_2000 · 07-06-2010, 03:08 PM

I am for total transparency in the senate and house. No voice votes if spending is involved. No riders on larger bills. All spending specifically authorized, just like a county commission does.

john_galt · 07-07-2010, 12:14 AM

One particular vote that Robert Byrd made was of a national interest. He was the head of a committee that had to position three C130s for air/sea rescue on the east coast around Virginia. Guess happened? The committee chaired by Byrd decided the three aircraft were to be assigned to the airport at Charleston, WV over 250 miles from the coast. Of course it turned out that the runway was too short for the C130 (I know the C130 is a short take off aircraft but somehow that was the reason) and so millions of taxpayer dollars were spent lengthening the runway. So now the newly called International Airport is in the mountains of West "by Gawd" Virginia where only a few hundred people a day go.
So Byrd endangered the people, wasted their tax dollars, and brought home the pork.

lacrew_2000 · 07-07-2010, 06:31 AM

I don't want to go down the list of Byrd's earmarks...he is merely the poster boy for a practice almost all senators participate in.

But because he is a poster boy, his leaving the senate seems to be a good opportunity for the senate to make a committment to stopping the practice.

My former Democrat Congresswoman, Nancy Boyda, actually took a few steps in this direction...and at least published a list of 'her' earmarks. This was a promise Pelosi had made (and decided to break), but Boyda persisted in being open about hers. I wish Pelosi had followed through and demanded all house members do the same.