Fetterman drops a large truth bomb in the Dem toilet

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

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You missed one. How about paying taxes after you’re dead. Yeah only a small minority of Americans get stuck giving away 40% of what they had through the estate tax. But only a small minority of Nazi Germany were Jewish too.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Let's dive a little into what Fetterman is concerned about with the Socialist-schtick, by looking at "wages" in a Socialist Utopia vs a Capitalist Reality.

Capitalism
Back in the early 1990's, I was doing a gig in Rochester, Minnesota. <Yah sure, you betcha> On my lunch break, I went to local Wendy's for a quick burger, fries and a frosty. I noticed their billboard had a sign: Help wanted, Starting at $12.50 per hour. That was almost double the starting rate I had seeing anywhere else in the country.

Back at the worksite I asked about it with the locals. Bottom line was: Rochester had two major employers that paid really good money, IBM and Mayo Clinic, along with all their supporting third parties. So the competition for labor necessitated a substantially higher wage to attract lower skilled workers. Obviously, this was before flooding the market with illegals.

Socialism
Fast forward to 2023 in California, where a new minimum wage law was to raise fast-food worker minimum wage to $20 p/hour, effective April 1, 2024. If you read the Commifornia website, it reads like a Socialist drip-fest, i.e. the phraseology. I'll under line a few:

California Increases Minimum Wage, Protections for Fast-Food Workers

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW: Beginning in April next year, California’s minimum wage for the state’s 500,000 fast-food workers will increase to $20 per hour – the average hourly wage for fast-food workers in 2022 was $16.21. Through the Fast Food Council, workers will have a stronger say in setting minimum wages and working conditions, including health and safety standards.

LOS ANGELES – Alongside fast-food workers, labor leaders, and legislators, Governor Gavin Newsom today signed legislation increasing the minimum wage for fast-food employees to $20 per hour, beginning April 1, 2024. The legislation, AB 1228 by Assemblymember Chris R. Holden (D-Pasadena), authorizes the Fast Food Council to set fast-food restaurant standards for minimum wage, and develop proposals for other working conditions, including health and safety standards and training.

WHAT GOVERNOR NEWSOM SAID: “California is home to more than 500,000 fast-food workers who – for decades – have been fighting for higher wages and better working conditions. Today, we take one step closer to fairer wages, safer and healthier working conditions, and better training by giving hardworking fast-food workers a stronger voice and seat at the table.”...

So... How has it been going since?

We Were Right: Newsom's $20 Min. Wage Has Now Nuked 20,000 Fast Food Jobs, Cost Remaining Workers Thousands in Lost Hours

By Johnathan Jones October 2, 2025

Democratic California Gov. Gavin Newsom promised just short of utopia when he signed California’s FAST Recovery Act.

Two years later, the only thing raising the state’s minimum wage for fast-food workers has accomplished is to kill jobs.

The Washington Examiner reported, the Employment Policies Institute found California has lost nearly 20,000 fast-food jobs since Newsom’s law took effect.

That’s one-quarter of all fast-food job losses nationwide.

This is what happens when politicians prioritize virtue signaling over economic reality.

Pizza Hut franchises laid off 1,200 delivery drivers to cut costs. Other chains like Mod Pizza and Foster’s Freeze closed their doors.

Newsom’s mandate didn’t protect workers; it priced people out of jobs...

...Now, every lost job represents a family harmed by his state’s economic illiteracy.

And even the “lucky” employees who kept their jobs are losing.

EPI said restaurant workers lost 250 hours annually, or $4,000 under the old wage...

...This wasn’t about helping workers.

This law was about central planning, photo ops, and Newsom’s ambition.

Conservatives warned that this would happen, and we were right...

I can see why Fetterman doesn't want to be leading with Socialism.

Big surprise. Eh Comrades?

Perhaps next on the docket we might take a gander at Newsome's current proposal regarding Uber and Lyft collective bargaining in the age of automation??

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by Tiny

You missed one. How about paying taxes after you’re dead. Yeah only a small minority of Americans get stuck giving away 40% of what they had through the estate tax. But only a small minority of Nazi Germany were Jewish too.

Americans don’t even realize or seem to care how badly they’re getting soaked, the revolutionary war was fought for way less. If you get $1000 gross paycheck on Friday, stop for gas and groceries on the way home, half has gone to the government before you’re in the front door, yet people still lose their shit at the suggestion of allowing them to keep a small fraction more for themselves. At least half the country has Stockholm Syndrome.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Americans don’t even realize or seem to care how badly they’re getting soaked, the revolutionary war was fought for way less. If you get $1000 gross paycheck on Friday, stop for gas and groceries on the way home, half has gone to the government before you’re in the front door, yet people still lose their shit at the suggestion of allowing them to keep a small fraction more for themselves. At least half the country has Stockholm Syndrome.

Absolutely. Remember one of the biggest catalysts, the Boston Tea Party.

[Texas Contrarian]

Fetterman's observations should be a wakeup call for a number of rhetorically amped-up House and Senate progressives these days; such as AOC, Bernie, E-War, and Dallas's own Jasmine Crockett.

In a similar vein, former congresswoman Abigail Spanberger (now a Virginia gubernatorial candidate) unloaded a few years ago on fellow Democrats who indicated that they were perfectly okay with being referred to as "democratic socialists", saying that if they let themselves get tagged with the "democratic socialist" label, Democrats were likely to get "fucking torn apart" in the 2022 midterms.

Yes, the term "socialism" is bandied about quite promiscuously these days, and often in contexts where "social democracy," or some measure of it, is a more apt term. Still, "social democracy" can be quite expensive, to say the least. The pertinent question is: Who is going to pay for it? Particularly, how much "social democracy" is America's working class and middle class willing to pay for?

(Because you can't get remotely close to paying for this stuff by raising taxes to the stratosphere only on high income-earners and wealthy taxpayers.)

Here's a thread from a decade ago titled "Who Pays for Big Government?"

https://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=1325605

I posted at the time that this was likely to be a real eye-opener for progressives.

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

They can’t, unless they’re rich or poor. It’s why the middle class has been fleeing the state for decades. They lost a million middle class citizens in the 2010s and are on track to double or triple that in the 2020s.

Indeed. A friend of one of my nieces recently decided to move from Dallas back to the LA area where she grew up. She was apparently delighted to find out that U-Haul was eager to let her rent a moving truck or trailer for a fraction of the usual rate, as they needed to get as many of them as possible back to CA to accommodate the next wave of migrants to lower-tax, lower-cost states.

In 1989-1990, when Democratic majorities in the House and Senate were pushing for tax increases, GHW "Poppy" Bush advised that when liberals started talking about raising taxes on the "rich," it might be a good idea for middle-class Americans to be sure to keep a tight grip on their wallets. (Anyone remember what a fiasco the so-called "luxury tax" of 1990 was?)

Originally Posted by lustylad

It's the top marginal rate - all-in including state, local and federal taxes. It means you only get to keep 46 cents out of every marginal dollar you earn.

When Government starts confiscating 54 cents of every dollar - why work? At that point, the most productive and hard-working wealth creators in our society start saying - fuck it, I'm quitting! I didn’t sign up for forking over more than half of every dollar I earn to these shiftless greedy guvmint fucks who waste every dollar they seize!

Yes, the top marginal tax rate matters -- big time!

By and large, big, economy-transforming decisions are made "at the margin," so to speak.

If Mamdani is able to push through most of his tax-and-spend fantasies in NY, a lot of people there are likely to learn a painful lesson about what fully torqued-up progressivism is and what it does. Especially if this encourages even larger swaths of the financial services industry to decamp to states like Texas and Florida, which have no state income tax. (Note that Mamdani wants to push through even more tax increases on high income earners, even though New York City imposes its own city income tax, making the combined city-state income tax even higher than on most high-income Californians.)

One of the premier office locations for wealth management firms these days is Old Parkland near downtown Dallas. I understand that leasing there is going spectacularly well. And for good reason!

Bottom line: Attempts to turn the US into something resembling California writ large are not likely to turn out well for the politicians pursuing such adventures; let alone for the American public.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Seems he's got the hot-n-trots these days.
Barely even made it to the lu before he disgorged...

Fetterman: I Know and Love People Who Voted For Trump, They're Not Fascists or Trying to Destroy Constitution
By Randy DeSoto October 16, 2025

Pennsylvania Democratic Sen. John Fetterman called for liberals to dial back the rhetoric that likens President Donald Trump and his supporters to fascists, arguing it will only lead to more political violence like that seen in the assassination of Charlie Kirk...

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Here's an assignment for you - using the CA income tax brackets you listed, calculate the effective rate owed by a California resident with a) $1 million and b) $10 million in taxable income.

Then come back and let us know by how much these effective rates vary from the top marginal rate of 12.3%.

Thanks in advance.

Oh dear! It seems that txdot never handed in his homework assignment. Well, to be fair to those of you who went ahead and actually crunched the numbers, I'll provide the answers:

1. If you earn $1 million dollars in taxable income in the state of California, your effective state income tax rate will be 10.44%.

2. If you earn $10 million, your effective rate will be 12.11%.

Both rates differ (slightly) from the top statutory rate of 12.3% because of the way a progressive or graduated tax system works. As txdot explained in post #37:


"The core of a graduated income tax system involves “tax brackets” and “marginal tax rates.” Income is divided into specific ranges, or tax brackets, with each bracket assigned its own marginal tax rate.

A key aspect is that only the portion of income falling within a specific bracket is taxed at that bracket’s rate. For example, if a taxpayer’s income crosses into a higher bracket, only the amount exceeding the previous bracket’s limit is taxed at the new, higher marginal rate."


For those of you who completed the homework assignment, it should be obvious that this doesn't really save you much in California. Even the effective rate of 10.44% owed on your first $1 million of income exceeds the top marginal rate imposed in all but 3 of the other 49 US states!

Bottom line - the graduated nature of CA's state income tax provides only negligible "relief" from its sky-high confiscatory top rates. When txdot says awww shucks, it's not that bad, he's being entirely disingenuous.

Btw - I just noticed the top rate in CA is even higher than 12.3%. There's an additional 1% surtax imposed on income over $1 million for "mental health services". Which makes the top marginal rate 13.3% and changes the effective rate for someone earning $10 million to 13.0%.

But hey, I'm sure most California residents are enormously grateful to see that surtax collected and spent so efficiently in getting all the crazies off the streets. (Sarcasm alert.)

Btw - Pennsylvania, which is John Fetterman's home state and mine too, imposes a flat state income tax of 3.07%.

[Jacuzzme]

One who’d be a California resident by choice is definitely in need of mental health services. That 1% feels on the low side of what’s necessary.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

One who’d be a California resident by choice is definitely in need of mental health services. That 1% feels on the low side of what’s necessary.

The people remaining in Commifornia these days are actually already in a mental institution/state?!?

Hmmmm, <scratches goatee...> makes sense.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Oh dear! It seems that txdot never handed in his homework assignment. Well, to be fair to those of you who went ahead and actually crunched the numbers, I'll provide the answers:

lustylad, The reason I never responded to your post is that it is rarely productive to engage with someone who is being so smug and arrogant.

You’re not my teacher and I don’t care to do your homework assignment.

I also have the ability to read the room. This forum is full of Grover Norquist worshipping anti-tax nutters. Hell even Tiny compared people who pay the estate tax to victims of the holocaust which makes the IRS the Nazi’s in this comparison.

Originally Posted by Tiny

You missed one. How about paying taxes after you’re dead. Yeah only a small minority of Americans get stuck giving away 40% of what they had through the estate tax. But only a small minority of Nazi Germany were Jewish too.

Let me bring some facts to the debate that have nothing to do with the highest tax rate.

According to this site https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/f...-tax-data-2024 in 2024 the bottom 50% of tax filers only earned 10.4% of all adjusted gross income filed. So even if we had a 10% flat tax the bottom half of the country would still only pay 10% of all income taxes.

So Texas Contrarian is correct that the middle classes are paying most of the taxes that support the government but maybe a bigger problem is the fact that too many people make too little income in the US.

Also the people who file returns for over a million dollars are only doing so because if they want to spend that money they have to file a return. If they wanted to live a little leaner they would keep that money in some kind of tax deferred account or asset.

The truth is that most tax filers with million-dollar incomes have high income levels for years at a time which puts them in the very top of the wealthy class. https://massbudget.org/2022/10/25/on...lionaire-myth/

So when people complain about their taxes my first thought is stop your whining and be glad you have had the opportunity and drive to make the money you do have.

Maybe the reason so many people are talking about socialism is because they feel like the opportunities to get ahead are simply not the same as those that were around decades ago.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

I also have the ability to read the room. This forum is full of Grover Norquist worshipping anti-tax nutters. Hell even Tiny compared people who pay the estate tax to victims of the holocaust which makes the IRS the Nazi’s in this comparison.

Hi TxDot, Norquist has two degrees (one's an MBA) from Harvard. He's not a nutter. He perhaps should focus more on restraining deficits and the national debt than he does.

No, the IRS isn't the SS. That honor will fall to the progressive wing of the Democratic Party if it ever takes complete power. Bernie Sanders would jack up the maximum marginal rate to 66% (79.3% in California) and apply it to capital gains and dividends along with ordinary income. He would impose an 8% marginal wealth tax EVERY YEAR on the wealthiest Americans. And the maximum estate tax, imposed after the person dies, would be 77%.

So maybe you could say Bernie & Co. are 90% Nazis. They'd just take maybe 90%, not 100%, of what certain people would have without federal tax. I don't imagine they'd then proceed to kill the wealthy, like German Nazis did the Jews. But with slogans like "Eat the Rich" who knows.

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Let me bring some facts to the debate that have nothing to do with the highest tax rate.

According to this site https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/f...-tax-data-2024 in 2024 the bottom 50% of tax filers only earned 10.4% of all adjusted gross income filed. So even if we had a 10% flat tax the bottom half of the country would still only pay 10% of all income taxes.

From your link:

The average income tax rate in 2021 was 14.9 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.9 percent average rate, nearly eight times higher than the 3.3 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers. (Tiny's note: Most taxpayers also pay property tax, sales tax, state income tax, etc. So the total effective rate is higher than stated.)

The top 1 percent’s income share rose from 22.2 percent in 2020 to 26.3 percent in 2021 and its share of federal income taxes paid rose from 42.3 percent to 45.8 percent.

The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.3 percent.

So the top 1% pay 45.8% of the income tax. And they don't pay their fair share. Caca de toro. Or, more correctly, mierda.

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

So Texas Contrarian is correct that the middle classes are paying most of the taxes that support the government but maybe a bigger problem is the fact that too many people make too little income in the US.

No, what TC has correctly said, many times, is that if you want a welfare state, the middle class will have to pay for it, because the top 1% or top 10% don't have enough money to do that. He's posted a classic chart from this blog several times, which illustrates the point, comparing the progressivity of taxation in a European welfare state (France) to the USA.

https://archive.nytimes.com/economix...ig-government/

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Also the people who file returns for over a million dollars are only doing so because if they want to spend that money they have to file a return. If they wanted to live a little leaner they would keep that money in some kind of tax deferred account or asset.

That's absolutely not true TxDot. If it were, why would the top 1% be paying 45.8% of the income tax, from your Tax Foundation link?

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

So when people complain about their taxes my first thought is stop your whining and be glad you have had the opportunity and drive to make the money you do have.

That motivation and drive's going to disappear if Bernie and Liz and likeminded progressives take power. Or move to other countries.

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Maybe the reason so many people are talking about socialism is because they feel like the opportunities to get ahead are simply not the same as those that were around decades ago.

The reason 66% of Democrats have a positive view of socialism is because they're too uneducated or too young to realize what the effect of socialist policies have been on various countries around the world. The opportunities to get ahead are far better in a country like the USA, Switzerland, Ireland, and Singapore where free markets and capitalism predominate.