Iran's New Conditions to End the War..

[royamcr]

What happened to no new wars? Biden would start a war with Iran... You'd lose your fucking magat shit if Biden did this.

[lustylad]

Wait - I thought you were hung up on "war crimes"? Are you pivoting now? The pledge was no more forever wars. And I would have applauded Joe Biden if he had grown a pair, developed the moral clarity to see the Iranian mullahs for the depraved evil-doers they have shown themselves to be for 47 years, and dealt with them accordingly.

For the record, I have no "magat shit" to lose in this fight.

[Yssup Rider]

You’re spiraling Lusty.

And not being truthful.

[lustylad]

Well then, please feel free to go ahead and tell us the truth about the Iranian mullahs, yssup.

The floor is yours! (Mic drop.)

[pxmcc]

gents, let's focus on Iran, their list of demands, or anything related to that. no point in a pissing contest lol.

i know y'all can produce some really outstanding posts, so let's see more of that before biomed is forced to weigh in lol.

[VitaMan]

Lists like these are better off for grocery store or camping trips.


Trump may have gotten himself in a real bind. The Allies are not going to assist securing the Strait
until the hot war is over. Trump supposedly sending up to 10,000 marines - another bluff ?


Trump's talk about blowing up Iran power plants seems very much like extortion. It is the Trump way.

[txdot-guy]

The power in Iran wants to keep their power while getting the west and their allies to recognize their legitimacy.

What we need is to convince the Iranians that whatever government is installed that the best way to keep the peace is to stop it’s foreign interference policies, stop it’s support for militias in other countries, stop it’s interference in the straits of hormuz.

I’m just not sure how we’re going to accomplish this without real regime change in the region. And I’m not sure how we can accomplish regime changes without carpet bombing as needed and placing large numbers of troops on the ground.

Right now the list of demands is just a way of saying that we are world’s away from achieving any of our objectives.

[royamcr]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Wait - I thought you were hung up on "war crimes"? Are you pivoting now? The pledge was no more forever wars. And I would have applauded Joe Biden if he had grown a pair, developed the moral clarity to see the Iranian mullahs for the depraved evil-doers they have shown themselves to be for 47 years, and dealt with them accordingly.

For the record, I have no "magat shit" to lose in this fight.

Remember who put us in this fucked up situation in the first place 8 years ago. Trump's dumbass shitcanned obama's JCPOA and was supposed to replace it with something better but he TACOd. Most likely wasn't smart enough to make a better deal.

Biden tried to revive it but navigating through all the sanctions from trump era stalled it out. So here we are blowing up shit, spending way too much money, probably for nothing. TACO time.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by royamcr

Remember who put us in this fucked up situation in the first place 10 years ago... obama's JCPOA did it.

FYFY, royamcr. Nice to be able to agree with you.

Obama's JCPOA was a pitiful and disastrous attempt at "diplomacy".

Anyone with the slightest understanding of the Middle East could see how deftly the Iranians played Obama, John Kerry and Ben Rhodes for the dangerously naive fools they are.

During his two terms in office, Obama had zero foreign policy achievements. As his second term drew to a close, he was desperate to find something he could pretend was a "win" - so he caved on nearly all of the Iranian demands... just so he could call the JCPOA a victory.

In reality, it was even more limp-dicked than the "peace in our time" document Neville Chamberlain waved on the tarmac in London upon his return from Munich in 1938.





Let's go back to my post #45 and the 4 objectives that we're now trying to achieve:

FOUR KEY OBJECTIVES:

1. Destroying Iran's missile capabilities.

2. Knocking off Iran's navy.

3. Ensuring Iran can never obtain a nuclear weapon.

4. Ensuring the Iranian regime cannot arm, fund and direct terrorist armies outside their borders.

Obama's JCPOA gave the mullahs hundreds of billions of dollars in sanctions relief and access to unfrozen assets, enabling them to finance their nefarious designs of creating a terrorist-minded, destabilizing "Shia Crescent" from Beirut to Karachi. Because of the JCPOA, Iran was able to ramp up its missile production, keep its centrifuges spinning, and supply more & more money and weapons to its terrorist proxies throughout the Middle East. It paved the way for Hamas to attack Israel on October 7th and for the Houthis to shut down normal shipping in the Red Sea/Suez Canal. Ultimately, it just multiplied & accelerated the Iranian threats to the region, making the task of achieving this war's four key objectives harder, not easier. Thanks, obama. Thanks, John Kerry. Thanks, Ben Rhodes. Terrific job!

[pxmcc]

at this point in the war, i think we have a new list of objectives:
1. Open the Strait
2. Open the Strait
3. Open the Strait
4. Open the Strait

ok, i admit i'm exaggerating a bit, but Iran has us in a bit of a pickle. i would argue that we have no desirable options right now, only bad or worse.

if i was the commander, i would do the following:
1. take Kharg Island with the Tripoli
2. take the other islands with the Boxer
3. land on both sides of the Strait and secure that territory
4. keep bombing the shit on anywhere Iran is using to launch attacks
5. bring more Warthogs to the front
6. bring another carrier strike group
7. bring more destroyers and cruisers
8. start escorting oil tankers through the Strait

all of this is a shitty option but it's the least shitty option we have, imo, for a war that absolutely never should have been launched. it is what it is, though.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by lustylad

FYFY, royamcr. Nice to be able to agree with you.

Obama's JCPOA was a pitiful and disastrous attempt at "diplomacy".

Anyone with the slightest understanding of the Middle East could see how deftly the Iranians played Obama, John Kerry and Ben Rhodes for the dangerously naive fools they are.

During his two terms in office, Obama had zero foreign policy achievements. As his second term drew to a close, he was desperate to find something he could pretend was a "win" - so he caved on nearly all of the Iranian demands... just so he could call the JCPOA a victory.

In reality, it was even more limp-dicked than the "peace in our time" document Neville Chamberlain waved on the tarmac in London upon his return from Munich in 1938.

Let's go back to my post #45 and the 4 objectives that we're now trying to achieve:

FOUR KEY OBJECTIVES:

1. Destroying Iran's missile capabilities.

2. Knocking off Iran's navy.

3. Ensuring Iran can never obtain a nuclear weapon.

4. Ensuring the Iranian regime cannot arm, fund and direct terrorist armies outside their borders.

Obama's JCPOA gave the mullahs hundreds of billions of dollars in sanctions relief and access to unfrozen assets, enabling them to finance their nefarious designs of creating a terrorist-minded, destabilizing "Shia Crescent" from Beirut to Karachi. Because of the JCPOA, Iran was able to ramp up its missile production, keep its centrifuges spinning, and supply more & more money and weapons to its terrorist proxies throughout the Middle East. It paved the way for Hamas to attack Israel on October 7th and for the Houthis to shut down normal shipping in the Red Sea/Suez Canal. Ultimately, it just multiplied & accelerated the Iranian threats to the region, making the task of achieving this war's four key objectives harder, not easier. Thanks, obama. Thanks, John Kerry. Thanks, Ben Rhodes. Terrific job!

A more slanted view of the JCPOA would be hard to come by.

Obama was dealing with the end of the Iraq war, the rise of ISIS, the recovery of a world wide recession, and Afghanistan. During the time that the JCPOA was implemented moderates were in control in IRAN and the enrichment program was mothballed by the Iranians.

It was only after Trump scuttled the JCPOA and started reimposing sanctions did their enrichment program start up again.

You call it appeasement I call it making peace.

What I find fascinating is that the JCPOA was reviled here in the west as appeasement as well as by Iranian hardliners who were suspicious of Israel and the west. Neither side truly trusted the other and both came to prominence during the first Trump presidency.

The truth is that the neocons under Trump scuttled the deal and the possibility of peace never recovered from it.

[royamcr]

Originally Posted by lustylad

FYFY, royamcr. Nice to be able to agree with you.

Obama's JCPOA was a pitiful and disastrous attempt at "diplomacy".

Anyone with the slightest understanding of the Middle East could see how deftly the Iranians played Obama, John Kerry and Ben Rhodes for the dangerously naive fools they are.

During his two terms in office, Obama had zero foreign policy achievements. As his second term drew to a close, he was desperate to find something he could pretend was a "win" - so he caved on nearly all of the Iranian demands... just so he could call the JCPOA a victory.

In reality, it was even more limp-dicked than the "peace in our time" document Neville Chamberlain waved on the tarmac in London upon his return from Munich in 1938.





Let's go back to my post #45 and the 4 objectives that we're now trying to achieve:

FOUR KEY OBJECTIVES:

1. Destroying Iran's missile capabilities.

2. Knocking off Iran's navy.

3. Ensuring Iran can never obtain a nuclear weapon.

4. Ensuring the Iranian regime cannot arm, fund and direct terrorist armies outside their borders.

Obama's JCPOA gave the mullahs hundreds of billions of dollars in sanctions relief and access to unfrozen assets, enabling them to finance their nefarious designs of creating a terrorist-minded, destabilizing "Shia Crescent" from Beirut to Karachi. Because of the JCPOA, Iran was able to ramp up its missile production, keep its centrifuges spinning, and supply more & more money and weapons to its terrorist proxies throughout the Middle East. It paved the way for Hamas to attack Israel on October 7th and for the Houthis to shut down normal shipping in the Red Sea/Suez Canal. Ultimately, it just multiplied & accelerated the Iranian threats to the region, making the task of achieving this war's four key objectives harder, not easier. Thanks, obama. Thanks, John Kerry. Thanks, Ben Rhodes. Terrific job!

Since the U.S. withdrawal from the deal in 2018 and the subsequent "maximum pressure" campaign, Iran has significantly ramped up uranium enrichment to near-weapons grade (60%).

The deal successfully mothballed thousands of centrifuges and shipped 98% of Iran’s enriched uranium out of the country.

Yes the JCPOA focused strictly on nuclear capabilities and did not restrict Iran’s ballistic missile development. They would have done this anyway, no nukes on top of them at least.

JCPOA may not have been perfect, nothing is, but it was something to keep nukes out of a terrorist state for at least 15 years. That is a lot.

Obama acknowledged that Iran had always funded proxy groups like Hezbollah even under strict sanctions, arguing that the benefit of preventing a nuclear-armed Iran outweighed the risk of these funds being misused.

As far as the billions they got, 2/3s was used to repay debts. Around 32 billion was left after it was all settled. Sounds like a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things it isn't a lot. It's around 7% of Iran's GDP at the time.

In searching for what deal trump made with Iran, I come up with nothing. TACOd. Art of no deal. He was chief golfer and vacationer.

[pxmcc]

can anyone think of any way to do this operation without ground troops? i'm very bothered by the prospect but i can't come up with an alternative to get the Strait of Hormuz opened up to shipping and oil tankers other than with a massive escalation that includes ground troops. anyone have any ideas?

what would we have to agree to to get a cease fire? Iran is in no mood to be dictated to. all they need to do to get a win is just to survive, which they seem to be doing quite well. my guess is control of the Strait going forward, which is horrific but might just be the price of an immediate cease fire. maybe that's a better outcome than ground troops? they will set up toll booths, but maybe that's a better deal than our guys coming home in boxes or seriously wounded.

Trump just casually shook the killer bees' nest thinking everything would be just dandy. that's a problem when you're surrounded by a bunch of yes men. at a minimum, the Pentagon should have war-gamed this out and they would have seen what a clusterfuck attacking Iran would be. their level of preparation for this war was practically nil. it's a case of presidential and DOD malpractice, among other things.

i've noticed that it's much easier to break stuff than to build or fix stuff. right now the whole Mideast is on fire. things won't ever be the same even after the shooting stops.

he's putting another Mideast war on the national credit card otherwise known as our humongous debt.

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by royamcr

Since the U.S. withdrawal from the deal in 2018 and the subsequent "maximum pressure" campaign, Iran has significantly ramped up uranium enrichment to near-weapons grade (60%).

The deal successfully mothballed thousands of centrifuges and shipped 98% of Iran’s enriched uranium out of the country.

Yes the JCPOA focused strictly on nuclear capabilities and did not restrict Iran’s ballistic missile development. They would have done this anyway, no nukes on top of them at least.

JCPOA may not have been perfect, nothing is, but it was something to keep nukes out of a terrorist state for at least 15 years. That is a lot.

Obama acknowledged that Iran had always funded proxy groups like Hezbollah even under strict sanctions, arguing that the benefit of preventing a nuclear-armed Iran outweighed the risk of these funds being misused.

As far as the billions they got, 2/3s was used to repay debts. Around 32 billion was left after it was all settled. Sounds like a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things it isn't a lot. It's around 7% of Iran's GDP at the time.

In searching for what deal trump made with Iran, I come up with nothing. TACOd. Art of no deal. He was chief golfer and vacationer.

+1

Good post. The JPCOA was a good deal for the USA and six other countries that signed it. It allowed Iran to keep enriched uranium at 3.67% or less. Thousands of centrifuges were shut off and monitored 24/7 in real time. Enrichment charts posted by lustylad several years ago showed that Iran had enriched up to 20% concentration of u-235 before the JPCOA was signed. You are correct that Iran had to get rid of enriched uranium above 3.67%. And reduce the amount they had stockpiled by 97%. This alone would prevent Iran from enriching to 90%, the amount required to get a nuclear bomb with similar power to the ones used on Japan in WWII.

From the wiki link:

Over 15 years, Iran would reduce its stockpile of low-enriched uranium by 97%, from 10,000 kg to 300 kg,[56][43][57][58][59] and limit enrichment to 3.67%, sufficient for civilian nuclear power and research, but not for weaponry.[57][58][60] This represented a "major decline" in Iran's nuclear activity. Iran had produced stockpiles near 20% (medium-enriched uranium).[57][58][59] Stocks in excess of 300 kg enriched up to 3.67% would be diluted to 0.7% or sold in return for uranium ore, while uranium enriched to between 5% and 20% was to be fabricated into fuel plates for the Tehran Research Reactor or sold or diluted to 3.67%. P5+1 agreed to facilitate commercial contracts.


Our intelligence agencies confirmed that Iran was complying with the JPCOA before Trump cancelled the agreement in May of 2018. These were Trump's people. By getting out of the agreement this allowed Iran to enrich from 3.67% concentration to 60% concentration. Which they still have because of the three Iran nuke plants that were bombed one of them was not completely destroyed and that was where Iran hid the 60% enriched Uranium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_nuclear_deal

https://huffman.house.gov/media-cent...lear-agreement

[pxmcc]

^^once Trump figured out that Obama was the smartest guy in the room, and not just by a little bit, that was all she wrote..

Obama should've renamed it the Trump nuclear deal. then we would not be in our current clusterfuck..

#blameBarack
#oopsididitagainsaystrump..