When you have a Muslim

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Liberals like you that are eager to draw moral equivalences between Judeo-Christian based western civilization and the Islamists are a danger to our survival.

It's fascinating how liberals like Little Blind Boy and Old-T have their fat asses ensconced atop the bountiful heritage afforded by a Judea-Christian based western civilization and yet believe themselves separate and aloof enough to criticize: as if they were not a product of what they criticize. Little Blind Boy and Old-T are both hypocrites.

[Don't Be Daft!]

I think everyone needs 5 PM to get here so we all can have a few pints. I'm going to start with Samuel Smiths and then move on to good ole Boddingtons. On second thought continue the bloody banter its good for a wee laugh.

*Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Judaism(My religion) is all utter nonsense--pure rubbish. We(Jews) are no more the chosen people than the indigenous people of Australia are. And, perhaps they are--who knows and, who bloody cares!

Right, off for me tea;-)

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

It's fascinating how liberals like Little Blind Boy and Old-T have their fat asses ensconced atop the bountiful heritage afforded by a Judea-Christian based western civilization and criticize. Little Blind Boy and Old-T are both hypocrites.

The liberal habit of criticizing their own culture is grounded in elitism. They think they can prove their superiority by distancing themselves from the "great unwashed"

It's a little like people who profess a love for modern art and don't actually like it. Liberals ignore or downplay the barbarism routinely practiced in Islam as way of showing that they are better than the simpletons that call a spade a spade. It reminds me the of the story The Emporer's New Clothes.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by liberaldevil

I think everyone needs 5 PM to get here so we all can have a few pints. I'm going to start with Samuel Smiths and then move on to good ole Boddingtons. On second thought continue the bloody banter its good for a wee laugh.

*Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Judaism(My religion) is all utter nonsense--pure rubbish. We are no more the chosen people than the indigenous people of Australia are. And, perhaps they are--who knows and, who bloody cares!

Right, off for me tea;-)

Question, in your opinion, is antisemitism a discriminatory practice based on racial or religious bias? Or is it both?

P.S. This not a trick question, but your answer should/could offer a better vantage for viewing historical events. BTW, 'Conversos' were not necessarily 'Crypto-Jews'.

[Don't Be Daft!]

Racial: If you lump all Semitic peoples in that pile(both Arabs and Jews).

Religious: If one is only zeroing in on us Jews.

IMO: It is usually is based on Jewish religious beliefs. But, it can also have to do with stereotypical physical features. Luckily me dads big nose skipped me;-)

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by liberaldevil

I think everyone needs 5 PM to get here so we all can have a few pints. I'm going to start with Samuel Smiths and then move on to good ole Boddingtons. On second thought continue the bloody banter its good for a wee laugh.

*Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Judaism(My religion) is all utter nonsense--pure rubbish. We(Jews) are no more the chosen people than the indigenous people of Australia are. And, perhaps they are--who knows and, who bloody cares!

Right, off for me tea;-)

Wait a minute, don't go knocking Zoroaster! You've gone too far!

It's a perfectly valid theory that all religions may be "rubbish". But it's important that all religions coexist peacefully.

The problem is that the Islamists don't play well with others.

[Don't Be Daft!]

Islamists don't play well with others because their religion is based on all others being wrong. You'll just have to believe me on this one--90% of their ritual practice is taken from the Torah portion of opening prayers in a Shul(synagogue). Their reference to the "oneness" of G-d comes from the Jewish "Shema". Hear, Oh Israel the L-rd your G-d is one. It goes on blah, blah, blah, etc. I think its Deut-8. I'm not a Torah scholar so I could be well wrong. They look over each sholder prior to praying to pay homage to the angels as we do prior to putting on a "Tallit"(prayer shawl). Its kind of like Lewis Black said, "Our book wasn't good enough so they made their own." They also took Jesus and Mary from your book. One big difference in the religions is the aspect of "Jin". I believe these are something like mythical desert demons. They are neither good or bad. We have no such rubbish in the Torah(First 5 books of your Bible.) Or, for that matter in the whole Tenach(Your entire Old Testament). There isn't any force greater than G-d or equal to the "Almighty" in either your book or ours. Now I am a firm believer on relgious freedom but in my personal opinion Islam is a religion created on a conquor mentality. Neither religion(Judaism or Christianity) was a uniting force for the polytheistic Arab tribes in the Arabian peninsula. Therefore, they created their own bloody religion to unite all the tribesmen. Thus, the great similarities in the liturgical practices of Muslims in Jews. Where do you think Halal came from. Its about as close to Kosher observance as one can get! In fact it is said in the Talmud if a Jew cannot find a decent kosher butcher when he/she is in a foreign land they are to eat Halal. I'm a bit of a religious historical nut so I'll stop there.

*Side note: When I use the word G-d in a religious reference I use the dash mark. Its out of respect and a very old habit from Hebrew school. Some habits are a wee bit hard to break even if i do think all religions are a bit of a farce.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by liberaldevil

Racial: If you lump all Semitic peoples in that pile(both Arabs and Jews).

Religious: If one is only zeroing in on us Jews.

Okay. Have you ever heard anyone in your faith claim it is both?

When at college, professors (btw, they were liberals) taught it was the Jewish insistence that they were the 'chosen people' - a 'separate race' - that historically put them at odds with governments: whether it was the pharaohs of Egypt or the monarchs in Spain.

Monarchs, who presupposed their positions justified by a supreme being(s), demanded absolute obeisance. The same was demanded of Jews and Christians during the Roman era. Those who refused were executed: sometimes in games held in honor of the Roman gods.

So was the persecution by the state in such instances definitively religious or political? Or both?

As an aside, what was written on the sign affixed to Jesus' cross? So, from a Roman vantage, was the persecution by the state definitively religious or political? Or both?

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by liberaldevil

Islamists don't play well with others because their religion is based on all others being wrong. You'll just have to believe me on this one--90% of their ritual practice is taken from the Torah portion of opening prayers in a Shul(synagogue). Their reference to the "oneness" of G-d comes from the Jewish "Shema". Hear, Oh Israel the L-rd your G-d is one. It goes on blah, blah, blah, etc. I think its Deut-8. I'm not a Torah scholar so I could be well wrong. They look over each sholder prior to praying to pay homage to the angels as we do prior to putting on a "Tallit"(prayer shawl). Its kind of like Lewis Black said, "Our book wasn't good enough so they made their own." They also took Jesus and Mary from your book. One big difference in the religions is the aspect of "Jin". I believe these are something like mythical desert demons. They are neither good or bad. We have no such rubbish in the Torah(First 5 books of your Bible.) Or, for that matter in the whole Tenach(Your entire Old Testament). There isn't any force greater than G-d or equal to the "Almighty" in either your book or ours. Now I am a firm believer on relgious freedom but in my personal opinion Islam is a religion created on a conquor mentality. Neither religion(Judaism or Christianity) was a uniting force for the polytheistic Arab tribes in the Arabian peninsula. Therefore, they created their own bloody religion to unite all the tribesmen. Thus, the great similarities in the liturgical practices of Muslims in Jews. Where do you think Halal came from. Its about as close to Kosher observance as one can get! In fact it is said in the Talmud if a Jew cannot find a decent kosher butcher when he/she is in a foreign land they are to eat Halal. I'm a bit of a religious historical nut so I'll stop there.

*Side note: When I use the word G-d in a religious reference I use the dash mark. Its out of respect and a very old habit from Hebrew school. Some habits are a wee bit hard to break even if i do think all religions are a bit of a farce.

You mention that creating Islam was a way of uniting the Arab tribes; I agree. In the early days. Mohammad was having trouble getting his own tribe to convert to Islam so he called a meeting with the tribal elders. The elders agreed to convert to Islam if Mohammad woud agree to incorporate three goddesses from their faith into the Koran; Mohammad agreed. He later removed the goddesses with the explaination that he had been demon possesed.

I agree that Islam is pretty much a copy of Judaism and Christianity. It's sort of like when L. Ron Hubbard cooked up Scientology by combining new age stuff with Freudian psychology and some really bad science fiction for good measure.

The Mahdi (twelfth imam) worshipped by the Sufi Muslims is suspiously similar to the description of the anti-Christ found in the New Testament. That's one of the things about Islam that really creeps me out.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Are you actually endorsing the BS Little Blind Boy posted? If you are, you are just as retarded as that stupid asshole. What he posted was nonfactual bullshit that Kool Aid drinking liberals thrive on. You are unable to refute a single post against his lying ass, so you resort to ad hominem attack stating that those you disagree with are filled with hate. Deal with specifics and justify with facts Little Blind Boy's - if you can. Otherwise, blow it out liberal, Kool Aid drinking ass. You are the one who is brainwashed if you believe that Little Blind Boy made a factual post.

I thought Stevie listed a number of specific people/examples that refuted the original implication that Muslims are all evil and all evil is a result of Muslims. Those were facts, and generally accepted by most same people. Or are you one of those who claims the holocost didn't happen as well (I know you believe in the Gulags since it was bad evil commies who did that)? I often disagree with Stevie, but in this case he is quite accurate.

I too added some very specific names and examples. I'm sorry if you do not want to acknowledge any facts that don't fit your hate filled view of life--they are still facts.

Oh, and while on the topic of hate, I don't need to prove that YOU are driven by--obsessed with--hate, your own words condemn you. Let's recap this one small post of yours:
"you are just as retarded as that stupid asshole"
"nonfactual bullshit that Kool Aid drinking liberals thrive on"
"his lying ass"
"blow it out liberal, Kool Aid drinking ass"
That is almost 30% of the words in your post focused on name calling, attacking, and ridiculing. 30%. And the only reason you give is because you claim the Crusades, the Inquisition, Nazi Germany, the Attack on Pearl Harbor, the Salem Witch Trials, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and the Civil War are not facts.

I disagree with a lot of posts in this section of the board. I think it is overly representative of the extreme right fringe. But quite honestly I don't think most the posters I deisagree with are hate filled--I just disagree with them. You, sir, are one of the exceptions. You have demonstrated over and over again that given the opportunity you would seriously rewrite our US system of government and laws in a repressive direction. Of course you disavow that--you would only eliminate the beliefs you don't agree with, you would only attack those who YOu deem enemies even before the INDIVIDUALS and done anything but believe things you don't believe. You would move us away from freedom of speach, freedom of worship, and only grant those rights to people enlightened enough to see things as you see them.

Contrary to what you have convinced yourself I do NOT agree with many Islamic ideas. I DO believe in the constitution that says they have the right to say what they believe. Every bit as much as I believe YOU have the right to spew your hate which stinks a whole lot like their hate.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Your post is silly. There is a fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity. Muslims believe that the Koran is the LITERAL word of god dictated to Mohammad. Christians believe that the Bible is the INSPIRED word of god. The difference is critical. One allows for the possibilty of different interpretations: the other does not. One allows for the possibility of reformation; the other does not.
I agree the difference between a litteral and non-litteral view of scripture is critical. The problem is there are a LOT of Christians who treat the Bible as litteral. Just listen to a lot of the bible thumpers in the south and midwest.


If you want to point out Christian abuses from the last two thousand years you certainly can. But no fair minded person can say that modern day Christiantiy is similar to modern day Islam in abuses of human rights.
Here's an example of modern day Islam (sharia law) in action.
I wasn't trying to point out Christian abuses--just non-Muslim ones. My point wasn't to be anti-any-religeon, just to point out that abuses occur in any lock-step mind control view of religeon. The religeon itself is not the problem, it's the blind unquestioning obediencs to how a PERSON tells you to interpret it. Rev Jones didn't quite get it right in my view; Mother Theresa did a damn good job of interpreting.


PS
Listing the Oklahoma City bombing as an example of Christian extremism is a lie. Timothy McVeigh by his own account was agnostic.
My comment above applies here too. To me McVeigh was a sick extreme wacko who happened to be a non-Muslim. Just like the guy who shot a bunch of Afghans this week. I wouldn't condemn all Christians based upon him. In the same way I wouldn't condemn all Catholics because Hitler was raised as one.

.

[CJ7]

Contrary to what you have convinced yourself I do NOT agree with many Islamic ideas. I DO believe in the constitution that says they have the right to say what they believe. Every bit as much as I believe YOU have the right to spew your hate which stinks a whole lot like their hate.


Bingo!

their hyopcrisy speaks for itself, loud and clear ... nothing else need be said

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Old-T

I thought Stevie listed a number of specific people/examples that refuted the original implication that Muslims are all evil and all evil is a result of Muslims. Those were facts, and generally accepted by most same people. Or are you one of those who claims the holocost didn't happen as well (I know you believe in the Gulags since it was bad evil commies who did that So does the rest of the educated world.)? I often disagree with Stevie, but in this case he is quite accurate. No. Little Blind Boy is factually inaccurate - outright lying. Your carte blanche, uneducated acceptance of what he posted is retarded.
I too added some very specific names and examples. I'm sorry if you do not want to acknowledge any facts that don't fit your hate filled view of life--they are still facts. What you and Little Blind Boy posted are not 'facts'.

Oh, and while on the topic of hate, I don't need to prove that YOU are driven by--obsessed with--hate, your own words condemn you. And your posts show you for the Kool Aid drinking fool you are.
Let's recap this one small post of yours: It's unfathomable how you libs accept and perpetuate lies.
"you are just as retarded as that stupid asshole" You are, when you buy the BS Little Blind Boy posts.
"nonfactual bullshit that Kool Aid drinking liberals thrive on" You are endorsing Little Blind Boy's lies carte blanche; hence, 'thriving'.
"his lying ass" He did lie.
"blow it out liberal, Kool Aid drinking ass" Blow it out your liberal, Kool Aid drinking ass!
That is almost 30% of the words in your post focused on name calling, attacking, and ridiculing. 30%. And the only reason you give is because you claim the Crusades, the Inquisition, Nazi Germany, the Attack on Pearl Harbor, the Salem Witch Trials, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and the Civil War are not facts. Your and Little Blind Boy's distortions do not qualify as 'facts'. Each of his misconceptions was dealt with above, and yet you insist he was correct in his initial post. That makes you an obstinate, Kool Aid drinking fool.

Regarding what you posted: the Inquisition Again which one? the Cultural Revolution This was inflicted on the Chinese by the atheistic communist, Mao., the colonialization of the western hemisphere Too large a subject to deal with in detail here other than to show you are a hypocrite since you blindly choose to remain ignorant of the atrocities committed in the name of Islam when it expanded into Iberia, Africa, India, S.W. Asia, China, etc. the Oklahoma City bombings, It's already been pointed out that McVeigh was an agnostic. the Serb-Croat atrocities Again, you are willfully choosing to remain blind and ignorant. For over three hundred years, in this same region, occupying Islamists stole Christian women and children and shipped them East into slavery., Gulags Soviet gulags? Once again, those were a product of atheistic communists. the Vanintine's Day massacre ???, WTF? to your list of Islamic atrocities.

I disagree with a lot of posts in this section of the board. I think it is overly representative of the extreme right fringe. But quite honestly I don't think most the posters I deisagree with are hate filled--I just disagree with them. You, sir, are one of the exceptions. You have demonstrated over and over again that given the opportunity you would seriously rewrite our US system of government and laws in a repressive direction. Of course you disavow that--you would only eliminate the beliefs you don't agree with, you would only attack those who YOu deem enemies even before the INDIVIDUALS and done anything but believe things you don't believe. You would move us away from freedom of speach, freedom of worship, and only grant those rights to people enlightened enough to see things as you see them.

Contrary to what you have convinced yourself I do NOT agree with many Islamic ideas. I DO believe in the constitution that says they have the right to say what they believe. Every bit as much as I believe YOU have the right to spew your hate which stinks a whole lot like their hate. And you have a right to remain ignorant about historical facts, but don't expect compassion when you expose your ignorance on an open board.

..

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by Old-T

.

You say that a LOT of Christians take the Bible literally. I don't believe they do, at least not in the way the Muslims take the Koran literally.

There are passages in the Bible that say to kill the witches, kill the homosexuals, kill the fornicators (I especially don't like that one!). Moses even put people to death for not honoring the Sabath. All that draconian stuff is just ignored by even the most aggressive Bible thumpers.

Also, you make reference to Jones as an example of Christian extremism. I assume you're referring to the Jonestown mass suicide/massacre. Don't forget that Jim Jones was a communist and his little group of followers was more of a personality cult than a form of Christianity. You should watch the attached video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMt3nKd-QZY

[Don't Be Daft!]

IB Hankering: So was the persecution by the state in such instances definitively religious or political? Or both?

*In my opinion it was based on religion because of the revolts. We Jews didn't fancy Romans telling us who to pray to and how to do it, etc...
The Political issue was we were becoming a group. See Maccabee rebellions.

As far as being a "people" ethnically that is a murky subject. Many of us carry the same gene. I am a levite. All Kohen and Levites carry a certain gene. A gene of the priestly cast. I goes back to Aaron. When the IDF airlifted the Ethiopian Jews out of Ethiopia in 1985 many underwent gene testing. The Chief rabbi wanted to make bloody sure those that were claiming priestly lineage were indeed just that. This gene connection connects us Ashkenazim(European Jewry) to Sephardim(Spanish,Portuguese & Moroccan) Jewry to each other.

However, I do not think I shall see that on an application as a separate ethnic classification any time soon. Mores the pity really...

Would have bloody come in handy when applying for graduate school grants at university;-)