Another quagmire in the Middle East…..

[Yssup Rider]

Jesus

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by rooster

You might want to read up a little on the real history here.

Our support of the 1953 coup that put the Shah in power generated the very animosity and hatred of us that ultimately led to what is happening now. We are still coping with the absolute fucking mess that we triggered over 70 years ago.

Faak.

Hey roo, it's been a while but I have read up on the 1953 coup that ousted Mossedegh and put the Shah back on his Peacock Throne. Teddy Roosevelt's grandson, Kermit, ran the CIA operation in Tehran.

As I recall, my main take-aways were: 1) yes, the US did play a role in Mossedegh's overthrow and 2) it would have happened anyway, because the guy was incompetent and alienated nearly all segments of the Iranian population whose support he needed to govern effectively.

The truth is a lot more complicated than claiming we "triggered" the "absolute fucking mess" that now prevails in Iran 72 years later. That's silly, superficial, blame-the-US, revisionist history. You do realize the Shah ruled the country for just 26 years, while the mullahs have been in power for 47 years, nearly twice as long?

I do have to give the mullahs credit, though. They followed American politics carefully. They knew liberals were forever trying to atone for the CIA's alleged sins, after those misdeeds were made public in the mid-1970s (look up the Church Committee). So they played Americans like a fiddle every chance they got, constantly reminding us of our so-called complicity in "imposing" the Shah on them. This strategy worked well with folks like Barack Obama and John Kerry. Those two easy marks felt so guilty they bent over backwards to reward Iran with the 2015 JCPOA, allowing the mullahs to move forward with their nuclear weapons program.

If you don't believe Iran was much better off under the Shah, I suggest a quick trip to Los Angeles. You can interview the Iranians who settled there after 1979. There are around 140,000 of them. Nearly all still have family and relatives back in Iran with whom they stay in close touch. Ask them. They'll give you the real scoop.

Faak.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Hey roo, it's been a while but I have read up on the 1953 coup that ousted Mossedegh and put the Shah back on his Peacock Throne. Teddy Roosevelt's grandson, Kermit, ran the CIA operation in Tehran.

As I recall, my main take-aways were: 1) yes, the US did play a role in Mossedegh's overthrow and 2) it would have happened anyway, because the guy was incompetent and alienated nearly all segments of the Iranian population whose support he needed to govern effectively.

The truth is a lot more complicated than claiming we "triggered" the "absolute fucking mess" that now prevails in Iran 72 years later. That's silly, superficial, blame-the-US, revisionist history. You do realize the Shah ruled the country for just 26 years, while the mullahs have been in power for 47 years, nearly twice as long?

I do have to give the mullahs credit, though. They followed American politics carefully. They knew liberals were forever trying to atone for the CIA's alleged sins, after those misdeeds were made public in the mid-1970s (look up the Church Committee). So they played Americans like a fiddle every chance they got, constantly reminding us of our so-called complicity in "imposing" the Shah on them. This strategy worked well with folks like Barack Obama and John Kerry. Those two easy marks felt so guilty they bent over backwards to reward Iran with the 2015 JCPOA, allowing the mullahs to move forward with their nuclear weapons program.

If you don't believe Iran was much better off under the Shah, I suggest a quick trip to Los Angeles. You can interview the Iranians who settled there after 1979. There are around 140,000 of them. Nearly all still have family and relatives back in Iran with whom they stay in close touch. Ask them. They'll give you the real scoop.

Faak.

i'm TWK and i approve this factually correct post

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

Lets dissect this. The BBC released a story, Iran offered an excuse and made a claim, the allies offered a counter claim. Now, I tend to believe the good guys. That they wouldn't intentionally target a school. More likely a mechanical malfunction caused the tragedy. That's on me.

Rooster believed the bad guys immediately. He believed that the US deliberately targeted a school of girls. What does this say about Rooster? Nothing good.

Of course it wasn’t on purpose. That’s ridiculous to even theorize.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by rooster

At least 108 people have died in an explosion at a school in southern Iran

Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

And...subsequent video evidence it came from a malfunctioning Iranian missile that went up and came down on top of that school.

Originally Posted by 69in2it69

How about a source, since no retardlican is mentioning the EVIDENCE you quote. Or the 3 dead Americans...

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

The school thing wasn’t a malfunction, it was attached to a military installation, part of it from the air. I’m sure that they’d have rather have hit somewhere else in the compound, just 100m southwest would’ve been dead center, but didn’t. The “it’s an Iranian malfunction” story is fake news....

Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

Lets dissect this. The BBC released a story, Iran offered an excuse and made a claim, the allies offered a counter claim. Now, I tend to believe the good guys. That they wouldn't intentionally target a school. More likely a mechanical malfunction caused the tragedy. That's on me.

Rooster believed the bad guys immediately. He believed that the US deliberately targeted a school of girls. What does this say about Rooster? Nothing good.

Holy shit. Two freaking days later you want to come after me for this? Cool!

FIRST I am going to call out your LIE that I "believed that the US deliberately targeted a school of girls."

I did not fucking say that.

As for the rest of your post...MY "dissection" is that you repeated a lie. You got caught. And since you have no defense for posting A LIE...a lie that was just MAGA propaganda from a shit source...you now attack me personally.

The idea that you “tend to believe the good guys” is total bullshit. There was ONE idiot on a Right-wing site that said this “might have been” a malfunction.

ONE. You used one source on a biased, garbage site. And you posted it within minutes of when it was put up.

I used the BBC for my link only. I also verified what I posted on MULTIPLE other sites.

"What does this say about Rooster?"

That he researches the facts behind what he posts.

You do not. You repeat lies. You post them "immediately."

And then you defend them with personal attacks, no facts.

You lied about me and what I said.

That is my "dissection."

.

[pxmcc]

says almost no one in the U.S...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/...ttacks-on-iran

@Rooster: more like a vivisection..

anyone know the endgame here? anyone?..

is it maybe til the Mideast goes up in smoke? cause that's where this seems to be going..

boots on the ground. totally "America First"..

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...02-26-intl-hnk

[rooster]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Hey roo, it's been a while but I have read up on the 1953 coup that ousted Mossedegh and put the Shah back on his Peacock Throne. Teddy Roosevelt's grandson, Kermit, ran the CIA operation in Tehran.

As I recall, my main take-aways were: 1) yes, the US did play a role in Mossedegh's overthrow and 2) it would have happened anyway, because the guy was incompetent and alienated nearly all segments of the Iranian population whose support he needed to govern effectively.

The truth is a lot more complicated than claiming we "triggered" the "absolute fucking mess" that now prevails in Iran 72 years later. That's silly, superficial, blame-the-US, revisionist history. You do realize the Shah ruled the country for just 26 years, while the mullahs have been in power for 47 years, nearly twice as long?

I do have to give the mullahs credit, though. They followed American politics carefully. They knew liberals were forever trying to atone for the CIA's alleged sins, after those misdeeds were made public in the mid-1970s (look up the Church Committee). So they played Americans like a fiddle every chance they got, constantly reminding us of our so-called complicity in "imposing" the Shah on them. This strategy worked well with folks like Barack Obama and John Kerry. Those two easy marks felt so guilty they bent over backwards to reward Iran with the 2015 JCPOA, allowing the mullahs to move forward with their nuclear weapons program.

If you don't believe Iran was much better off under the Shah, I suggest a quick trip to Los Angeles. You can interview the Iranians who settled there after 1979. There are around 140,000 of them. Nearly all still have family and relatives back in Iran with whom they stay in close touch. Ask them. They'll give you the real scoop.

Faak.

First, I’ll make a deal with you. When we engage like this, I will be more careful to not insult you if you give me the same. Cuz this tactic of “hey, let’s talk while I not-so-subtly belittle some of your ideas” is better used by both of us on others who truly don’t deserve the respect. We don’t have to go that way, but it might be better. And a bit of a break.

The “truth” is more complicated, granted. But to say that we weren’t a major part of what led to the Revolution and modern-day problems is far from “superficial.” That opinion is not solely my own. It is a common one, that has been made for many years by many who are more qualified to speak on this than you and I. A very recent analysis in the NYT by a credible columnist who had actually lived in the region said much the same. I think it was Nicolas Kristoff, but I’m just going by memory.
.
But seriously, to speak of our involvement with the Shah’s return to power as “so-called complicity” is not accurate. And while I too have problems with the way people like Obama and Kerry handled Iran, I don’t think it was because they felt some kind of guilt or obligation because of this.

Lastly, you infer more than I imply when you say “if you don’t believe Iran was much better off under the Shah….”

I don’t need to go to LA or anywhere else.

I started to speak of this in my post in reply to CG2014 yesterday, but I refuse to be baited by someone who is so clearly disengenuous in his agenda, as proven by the frequent troll threads. So I killed the post. But I’m happy to elaborate now.

I worked for 5 years with a radiation physicist who fled Iran in 1979. He was an absolute prince of a man, one of my favorite people of my entire life. He was completely “heartbroken” (his words) over the way Iran turned against the West. And he despised the societal changes and economic hardships that resulted from the “Revolution.” But he had plenty of criticism of the Shah and the history of the Pahlavi dynasty also.

The history here is incredibly complex. But we have mismanaged our relationship with Iran for longer than many of us have been alive. I fear that this is only continuing.

.

[ICU 812]

I am a child of the Viet Nam era. I am a parent of a son who fought at Fallujah. I am wary of this stuff.

Yet, the leadership of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and the Ayatollah there all say that their ultimate goal is the destruction of the West including AIsrel, Europe and the USA . . .throught he use of nuclear weapons.

They have been adamant about this and persistent in peering the development of nuclear warheads and intercontinental ballistic missiles tout them on.

Years of negotiations and agreements have not dissuaded them from this path of d=anilation. This is not a discussion of border boundaries. This is not a discussion of fishing rights in the South China Sea. this is not a negotiation of import duties.

This has been and is a matter of the continued existence of the civilized Western world.

At this time, more talk won't keep the Iranians from developing an atomic bomb. that other nations have nuclear weapons is orrelavent, me-too-ism. The Indians and Pakistanis have nbeen nuclear capable for decades but both know that nuclear war is not productive. The Iranian Mullahs actually want to end the world and don't care if they go with it.