false statements on bank loan applications

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

3 sets of books were kept

One for the bankers
One for the IRS
And possibly one correct set

Of course MAGAs blame someone else

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

if you say so


bahahaaa

Common sense tells us so. If you report one set of numbers to the tax authorities and another set of numbers to the banks it would be necessary to keep at least three sets of books to keep track of your lies.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

You can call Weisselberg for verification and see what he says.

Remember him ? ...convicted felon who was the chief financial officer (CFO) of the Trump Organization.

No



bahahahaa

[VitaMan]

You can't ?


So much pity for the MAGA followers.

[eyecu2]

I thought this was a thread about false bank statements..

Not kangaroos or other appeals etc. start your own thread on that crap.


He lied,

He was caught,

So we're his son's and his ugly daughter.

They are ORDERED to pay.

BECAUSE OF LYING

[lustylad]

Donald Trump is the first person in US history to be fined for paying back loans in full on time with interest to banks that want to do more business with him.

Only a kangaroo would be applauding this travesty.

[lustylad]

Lookee here, eye... your pal Mr. Wonderful says if you believe in equal application of the law, then we need to put every real estate developer in New York out of business!

Whaddaya think that would that do to the New York real estate market?


Kevin O’Leary slams Trump’s civil ruling as ‘un-American’ and a shock to the entire real estate industry

By Mary K. Jacob
Published Feb. 16, 2024, 6:09 p.m. ET

In a scathing rebuke of a New York Judge’s decision to fine Donald Trump a staggering $355 million, the entrepreneur and media personality Kevin O’Leary minced no words, denouncing the ruling as “unjust,” “appalling” and ultimately “un-American.”

Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron’s Friday ruling not only slapped Trump with that hefty fine, but also with a temporary ban from conducting business in his native New York.

O’Leary, known for his role on “Shark Tank,” lambasted the decision, arguing that it sets a dangerous precedent for the entire real estate industry.

O’Leary had previously been critical of the months-long fraud case in the media, saying on CNN recently that, “I don’t think this thing will ever survive appeal regardless of what the fine is. This doesn’t even make sense.”

“That fact that he was found guilty, you might as well find guilty every real estate developer on Earth,” O’Leary said in an exclusive interview with The Post.

The judge’s decree bars Trump from assuming any officer or director positions in New York for three years, a move O’Leary sees as detrimental not just to Trump, but also to the broader business landscape.

“I don’t understand where someone got hurt... What developer doesn’t ask for the highest price valued for any building they built?” O’Leary said.

Predicting an overturn on appeal, O’Leary cautioned against the lasting repercussions this ruling might have on American business.

“It’s not healthy for the country,” he emphasized. “I want this reviewed and appealed and turned over because it’s wrong for everybody that participates.”

He later added, “If this judgment sticks. Every developer must be jailed. They must be found guilty. They must be put out of business. You can’t do this to one another. It’s not about Trump.”

“It’s appalling. It’s unjust. I would go as far to say it’s un-American,” O’Leary added.

Dubbing New York “a loser state” in the wake of the ruling, O’Leary also pointed out the potential exodus of businesses from the state if the decision holds.

“We’re just stunned. You have no idea. The shock wave sent through the real estate industry. Insane,” he said.

The ruling didn’t spare Trump’s two eldest sons either, who were slapped with a two-year business ban and ordered to pay $4 million each.

In response, and during the 2024 election cycle, Trump slammed the judgment as nothing short of an “election interference witch hunt,” decrying what he perceives as a biased and politically motivated assault on the justice system.

https://nypost.com/2024/02/16/real-e...s-un-american/

[VitaMan]

It is not surprising MAGAs cannot understand the reasons for the summary judgement against Trump and his organization. First, they are unable to admit the crimes that were committed. Second, when it takes a court of law to intervene to stop them, they complain of a political witch hunt. Digging up a "media personality" as an armchair quarterback is a complete nothing burger.

The MAGAs would be better served to face the truth. A review of the 92 page summary judgement would be a good place to start. A few excerpts are below. Note in particular the "personal guarantees".


The entire reason for what is in the original post of this thread was to show the court's decision in a relatively modest case. The fraud of Mr. Trump and the Trump Organization is on a massive, exponentially greater scale. To repeat one of Trump's favorite words....MASSIVE.



"Judge Engoron found that Trump's statements of financial condition between 2014 and 2021 overvalued his assets between $812 million and $2.2 billion. The ruling razed Trump's defense claims, accusing him and his co-defendants of trying to convince the court to “not believe its own eyes.”

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Donald Trump is the first person in US history to be fined for paying back loans in full on time with interest to banks that want to do more business with him. ...

No. Read the summary. "Blatantly false financial data."

Read that as fraud.

Ain't about donny&co and lenders. About NY not getting revenues from property tax.

I stated before for those who don't believe it: try paying a pittance of the property tax that you local taxing agency says you own. See what happens.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

No. Read the summary. "Blatantly false financial data."...

By the judge, more like. Bottom line is: Engoron put the value at $18M while the Palm Beach assessor puts the valuation at between $18M-$26M. That is lonely-land territory as nobody else has that view point, excluding yourself. Actual, normal, profession humans run it anywhere between $300M-$1B. Even the blatantly fake listing showed $422M.

Zillow amends 'incorrect' listing amid Mar-a-Lago sale rumors
Rumor fueled by Friday morning post showing $422 million sale earlier this month

PALM BEACH, Fla. — A Friday morning listing on Zillow showed that Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate was sold on Aug. 4 for $422 million. However, Zillow has since called the listing "incorrect," and the property is now listed as "off the market."...

BTW: Zillow later listed a ~$24M valuation during most of the trial, I believe

Real estate insiders question how Trump fraud judge valued Mar-a-Lago

New York CNN Business — A New York judge ruled last week that former President Donald Trump inflated the value of his Mar-a-Lago estate by an eye-popping 2,300%.

That finding, part of shocking ruling that found Trump and his adult sons liable for fraud, was just one of multiple examples in which Judge Arthur Engoron found the Trump real estate empire to have been grossly inflated in value.

But the Mar-a-Lago finding in particular is raising eyebrows among real estate and legal experts because of the metric Judge Engoron relied on: the county tax assessor’s appraisal value.
“From 2011-2021, the Palm Beach County Assessor appraised the market value of Mar-a-Lago at between $18 million and $27.6 million,” Engoron wrote in his ruling.
The judge noted Trump valued Mar-a-Lago at between $426.5 million and $612 million, “an overvaluation of at least 2,300%, compared to the assessor’s appraisal.”

But it’s widely known that the tax assessor valuation is typically, though not always, less than what a property would command on the open market.

In other words, it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison.

“Appraisal values and market values are just not the same thing. It’s a well-known fact,” said Eli Beracha, chair of the school of real estate at Florida International University. “That’s especially true for properties that are unique. And it’s very easy to argue this is a unique property.”...

Insightful article here:
How Much Is Mar-a-Lago Worth? Valuation of Trump Property Raises Questions

...“In an attempt to destroy my father and kick him out of New York, a Judge just ruled that Mar-a-Lago, in Palm Beach Florida, is only worth approximate [sic] ‘$18 million dollars’ … Mar-a-Lago is speculated to be worth we’ll [sic] over a billion dollars,” Eric Trump, the former president’s second-eldest son, wrote in an X, formerly Twitter, post.

Elsewhere, he shared listings for other houses on the market in Palm Beach, with prices ranging between $38.9 million and $59.9 million, despite being seemingly far smaller than Mar-a-Lago...

[VitaMan]

MAGAs keep talking about "no victim". This was a civil case, not a criminal case.



To help MAGAs understand the difference, if you get caught speeding, you pay a fine. A repeat offender may have their license suspended. In egregious circumstances, the fine may be substantial. Some fines are based on the ability to pay.


Mr. Trump has been fined and suspended. He was caught providing false documents and over valuing assets on a MASSIVE, repeating scale. The fine is substantial, reflecting this and many other contributing factors, all caused by Mr. Trump.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

By the judge, more like. Bottom line is: Engoron put the value at $18M while the Palm Beach assessor puts the valuation at between $18M-$26M. ...

Again, i'll state:

Originally Posted by Precious_b

No. Read the summary. "Blatantly false financial data."

Read that as fraud.

Ain't about donny&co and lenders. About NY not getting revenues from property tax.

I stated before for those who don't believe it: try paying a pittance of the property tax that you local taxing agency says you own. See what happens.

He had his chance to prove it in court.
It's on him that he picks shitty people to represent him.
It's on him for not exercising proper discipline during the proceedings.
It's on him for concentrating on the court of public opinion instead of a court of law.

[eyecu2]

How else do you stop a liar from lying? Consequences or a blind eye?

Why ever place any disclosure etc., and with that said, when does the borrowers's disclosure (such as Trumps) is more effective/ enforceable than that of the lenders. Let alone the damage of valuation of loans based in bad faith, vs. good faith.

Interest and principal aside, the majority of loans in large institutions are often sold based on the value of the underwriting.

Mazars said that's no longer valid, ergo the value goes down.

Appraisals from subsequent loans or LTV, change and the values go down.

Get in criminal trouble, -guess what- value goes down.

and on and on and on.

I get that the inherit value of any commodity such as real estate is subjective, but all assets in general have to have a line value- which is semi-static. Net Asset Value- or even cost basis is one way to consider line values. I can even see a real estate investor saying the values are in constant flux, but also linear perhaps, and with an increasing value of the average sales of similar properties; IE; if condos go up 11%, then you model your value statements shows that level of increase up 11%. But when those values are not substantiated in any way, and you just make up fuzzy numbers, or erroneous write off's or write downs, for taxes, and then show those omitted in current face value or market value, those are false when it's simply a guess at market value at best, or Market value x 200-400% It's just not truthful.

Someone who lies, does more damage that simple principal and interest as I've pointed out in prior posts. The fact that some here cannot see it, is just willful distortion of reality. AKA Alternative Facts- and therefore- not facts.

[1blackman1]

Trump condo resale values are down while non-Trump properties have increased. That valuation by The court is looking more and more correct.

[1blackman1]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/real...134a838&ei=141

In case anyone wonders about these valuation issues.

[Ducbutter]

Trump will pay the fines with proceeds from Truth Social.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deal...rm-2024-02-15/

Snick.