How about some liberal tutelage?

[JD Barleycorn]

So much piss flying around here. I asked everyone to stay away from "blaming" people but allowed that you could make a construction, critical proof that someone failed to do their job. I never asked about solutions but okay...

I propose that we vote everyone out of office that did not arrive with the last election. The new guys haven't really had to a chance to accomplish anything yet.

All elected official's salaries should be paid by the state and not the federal government. Let them come to us for pay raises and office money. Checks and balances.

End the practice of eight years to get a pension. End pensions because no one should stay in government that long.

Pass an amendment requiring all elected officials to follow the laws, regulations, or guidelines that they put in place for us.

Term limits-only 12 years of consectutive service, only 20 years of total service.

When you leave office you can't work as a lobbyist for 10 years. You would have to define what work, compensation, and lobbyist for this to work.

Just a few solutions that give us, the voters, some weapons for our protection.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

So much piss flying around here. I asked everyone to stay away from "blaming" people but allowed that you could make a construction, critical proof that someone failed to do their job. I never asked about solutions but okay...

I propose that we vote everyone out of office that did not arrive with the last election. The new guys haven't really had to a chance to accomplish anything yet.

All elected official's salaries should be paid by the state and not the federal government. Let them come to us for pay raises and office money. Checks and balances.

End the practice of eight years to get a pension. End pensions because no one should stay in government that long.

Pass an amendment requiring all elected officials to follow the laws, regulations, or guidelines that they put in place for us.

Term limits-only 12 years of consectutive service, only 20 years of total service.

When you leave office you can't work as a lobbyist for 10 years. You would have to define what work, compensation, and lobbyist for this to work.

Just a few solutions that give us, the voters, some weapons for our protection.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. But I think there is a simpler answer; require everyone to abide by their oath of office.

We require the members of all three branches of government to take an oath to defend the constitution; that means they are swearing to operate in accord with the constitution. They are only allowed to have power because it is conditional on that oath. If they operate outside of the constitution, the power they wield is illegitimate.

America was set up as a republic, not a democracy, because the founders understood that democracies always fail due to the people looting the treasury. Because of corrupt politicians, our system has degenerated into a defacto democracy. What we have is mob rule. Democracy equals socialism. Sooner or later the majority will always vote for equalization of wealth.

The current social welfare state functions by redistributing wealth; this is theft by proxy. Instead of the welfare parasites breaking into your house and stealing your possesions, they vote for socialist politicians and have the government do it on their behalf. This makes it legal, but it does not give them the moral authority to take from one person and give to another.

[CuteOldGuy]

+1

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

So much piss flying around here. I asked everyone to stay away from "blaming" people but allowed that you could make a construction, critical proof that someone failed to do their job. I never asked about solutions but okay...

I propose that we vote everyone out of office that did not arrive with the last election. The new guys haven't really had to a chance to accomplish anything yet.

All elected official's salaries should be paid by the state and not the federal government. Let them come to us for pay raises and office money. Checks and balances.

End the practice of eight years to get a pension. End pensions because no one should stay in government that long.

Pass an amendment requiring all elected officials to follow the laws, regulations, or guidelines that they put in place for us.

Term limits-only 12 years of consectutive service, only 20 years of total service.

When you leave office you can't work as a lobbyist for 10 years. You would have to define what work, compensation, and lobbyist for this to work.

Just a few solutions that give us, the voters, some weapons for our protection.

lobbyist limits - we already have that. I think the limit is set at 5 years for ex-politicians to be come lobbyists.

one thing I'd like to see is the end of staggered terms for the Senate. Elect all of them at the same time.

Why total of 20 years of term?

12 in the house, 12 in the senate, that's a total of 24 years of term.

also, the senator terms is currently set at 6 years. I'd like to see it reduced to 3 years term for elected senators and have 2 super-districts; 6 years for appointed senators.

[JD Barleycorn]

I have to go back to Ben Franklin, Adams, and Hancock. They all involved themselves in politics, left to the private sector, and came back with a greater understanding of how things work.

I don't want to see this country having an entire freshman class every couple of years because the unelected bureaucrats would gain more power as advisors and they never leave.

Senators used to be appointed by governors and/or state legislaturers. It was decided that we would elect them for better representation.

As for lobbyist; it is hard to define what is what. If a former congressman shows up to talk to his former colleagues about things including that bill on farm subsidies is that lobbying. What if he is not being paid? What if he cares about his state without being elected. Think about all the people who would like to talk about gun rights but don't believe to the NRA or any other group. Are they lobbyists? What about compensation. Is a paycheck the key? Newt Gringrich got a paycheck for whatever he did. What if he got stock tips that paid out enormous wins in the stock market. Is that compensation and can it be prove? Lobbying is a big bugaboo. Too bad we can't rely on personal character but that is where we live today.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

lobbyist limits - we already have that. I think the limit is set at 5 years for ex-politicians to be come lobbyists.

one thing I'd like to see is the end of staggered terms for the Senate. Elect all of them at the same time.

Why total of 20 years of term?

12 in the house, 12 in the senate, that's a total of 24 years of term.

also, the senator terms is currently set at 6 years. I'd like to see it reduced to 3 years term for elected senators and have 2 super-districts; 6 years for appointed senators.

forgot to add this.

I'd like to see the house terms increase from 2 years to 3 years.

[CuteOldGuy]

Let's start by repealing the 17th amendment and see where we are at.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Senators used to be appointed by governors and/or state legislaturers. It was decided that we would elect them for better representation.

Yes, the 17th Amendment was passed to make Senators subject to the political whims of the electorate, and that was wrong.

The Founding Fathers put a buffer between the electorate and Senators for a purpose. The Founding Fathers constituted the Senate to have staggered, six year terms for a reason: to prevent a wholesale change in every election. The Founding Fathers constituted the Senate to be a conservative, reflective legislative body that would keep the nation on an even keel - and not one that is directly subject to the political whims of a hysterical electorate every two or four years.

[JD Barleycorn]

It is all about checks and balances. We don't have the power to check anymore. In the beginning Congress only met a short time each year and was not expected to do so much. The check was the ballot box. They changed their work hours and we need more checks on their power by us.

[WTF]

Gawd Damn.....you guys need some magic dust or something?

Don't forget to tip the Sugar Plum Fairy after ya'lls fantasy dinner!

[CuteOldGuy]

Another well thought out, reasoned, well supported post from WTF. I think we're all better people because of it.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Another well thought out, reasoned, well supported post from WTF. I think we're all better people because of it.

I'm starting to get worried about WTF. I think his paint sniffing is really starting to do serious brain damage. At the rate his thought processes are declining he'll be reduced to drooling very soon, assuming he isn't already.

Maybe we should organize an intervention. On second thought, maybe we should by him some more paint.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Another well thought out, reasoned, well supported post from WTF. I think we're all better people because of it.

Originally Posted by joe bloe

I'm starting to get worried about WTF. I think his paint sniffing is really starting to do serious brain damage. At the rate his thought processes are declining he'll be reduced to drooling very soon, assuming he isn't already.

Maybe we should organize an intervention. On second thought, maybe we should by him some more paint.

My God, have you guys read your fantasy post in this thread on the last two pages?

Why don't you just start each post with, "If I were King....''

Jesus, I feel like I'm watching a group of kids play Monopoly and some of you actually think you are Donald Trump.

[JD Barleycorn]

I'm surprised WTF, didn't you know that this is a representative republic? We can make changes if we can convince enough people to get on board. This is not a kingdom or dictatorship but I'm not sure you approve of that. The first step is to recognize a problem and I think many of us have done that. The next step is to come up with a workable, politically neutral solution which is what we're working on here. If we can agree that something is good but unworkable (like executing all politicians after 10 years of service) then we can move to something that is more doable like term limits. You can be part of the solution or you can (as you have chosen) to be part of the problem.

[WTF]

JD this is a hooker board. Not the US Congress. The object is to get laid for the majority of ous and the rest is to get laid and paid. But if you Tea babies think you can change the world fine but you can dismiss the majority of folks that think youj are full of chit. We are part of the process too. People like me are exactly who you need to convince. Wothout converting people like me al you have is two sides slinging mud. And that my friend I believe is a good thing. This is not the stepford united states of america.