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FlashCardz · 07-14-2010, 10:19 PM

If you are a professional, why are you threatened by an "amateur" offering free photos. If you are a professional your product should be a lot better than an amateur. Clients should/would want to pay for your products. I do not see why there is a debate.

karmal · 07-15-2010, 03:09 AM

my name is karmal and i need some pictures and free is always good for me so if you want to use me and your in the dallas area please let me know.brownkarmal1@gmail.com

BellaEroticImagery · 07-16-2010, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashCardz

If you are a professional, why are you threatened by an "amateur" offering free photos. If you are a professional your product should be a lot better than an amateur. Clients should/would want to pay for your products. I do not see why there is a debate.

Threatened? Personally, I dont feel threatened by even those with superior skills/equiptment/studios. We all do our art/craft to the best of our abilities as I'm sure everyone here does. All we (me and the few others who spoke up) are pointing out is although free is not always better, it does its damage to any industry when offered to the general public. Sometimes minor, sometimes major.

If there is no one that beleives that, think about this...

No matter what business you are in. If someone opens shop up next to yours and offers the same/similar service/product that you feel is not the same quality but at a drastically lower cost (including free) and its a service/product that is bought on a regular basis, do you not think it will damage your business? In the long run, yes they will fade away and your business will come back but damage has been done.

Blue Edge Photos · 07-16-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellaEroticImagery

No matter what business you are in. If someone opens shop up next to yours and offers the same/similar service/product that you feel is not the same quality but at a drastically lower cost (including free) and its a service/product that is bought on a regular basis, do you not think it will damage your business? In the long run, yes they will fade away and your business will come back but damage has been done.

Agreed.

OnceUponAnEscort · 07-25-2010, 02:42 PM

Just a suggestion to the OP.

I had a client once that did me a huge favor - even if he didn't realize it at the time. (or maybe he did, since my pics were few and far between, and very GWC like)

He had already booked our appt a while back, and I guess about a week or so before, he sent me a message saying/asking if I had an extra 30min or so after the session...that 'If you want to, or feel up to it - I'll bring my nice camera and take a few shots of you that you can keep. I'll even bring the laptop so you can have a disc before you leave. If you decide to do it, let me know and be sure to bring a few outfits you'd like to change into.'

He wasn't asking for a discounted session.
He wasn't asking me for any money.
He wasn't telling me that my current pictures were jack crap.
And actually - in session - in wasn't mentioned at all. I had almost forgotten about it.

I was still somewhat new at the time, the idea of being in front of a camera, with a lot of my skin showing - was a bit frightening.

I personally think that because the photography wasn't brought up until everything had already been established, it wasn't even trying to be a trade of any sort.

Just a photo lovin fella with nice equipment, and a gal with limited resources who could have used someone giving her biz a kick it needed - without any favors asked of in return. And I never asked for it in the first place - is what makes it so nice.

OnceUponAnEscort · 07-25-2010, 02:47 PM

So - since we are on the topic of photography....where do I go/who do I talk to in the DFW area about just learning more about taking good pictures with a decent DSLR I have (note - I said, "good"...not great, pro or anything of the sort).
I keep getting confused on the aperture and f-stop settings - and I'm trying to understand my books on the speedlite flash, and how to use it properly...but honestly, it's a bit overwhelming. I have done well with it for using it while volunteering in the community...but what if I wanted to take more specific pictures of people and such?

I think if someone with a bit (or a lot) of patience walked me through several scenarios and scenes that can be applied to that camera, then I may get the hang of it a bit better.

Again, not trying to go pro. (or to do a trade of 'providing' sorts)
It's just that the reading and reading and reading - and what practice I have had, isn't doing it for me.

Thanks for the advice in advance.

pornodave69 · 08-03-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellaEroticImagery

...No matter what business you are in. If someone opens shop up next to yours and offers the same/similar service/product that you feel is not the same quality but at a drastically lower cost (including free) and its a service/product that is bought on a regular basis, do you not think it will damage your business? In the long run, yes they will fade away and your business will come back but damage has been done.

I agree with this as well. It's a common occurrence/concept for anyone starting out to want to do a freebie for the experience. We've probably all done it, or at least charged a lower rate because we were amateurs at the time and didn't think the quality of our work was up to the higher price. I've paid models for their time, I've done TFP/TFCD and I've done service trades and paid work with escorts.

The problem with others doing it for free or cheaper is that potential clients will expect the same price out of you for the same service, irrespective of the quality of the work. Most of my work is corporate related and I lose jobs to newbies who low-ball their rates to get the job, but they don't know what they're doing and have no experience at the type of work I regularly do. The clients realize in the long run the cheap is not the way to go. Experience counts.

I didn't do many to begin with, but I stopped doing weddings years ago because digital ruined it for me. Anybody could buy a $1000 Canon Rebel or a similar Nikon and charge $800 for unlimited time and unlimited images on DVD. My $6000 camera and $2500+ packages couldn't compete with that. These clowns don't even know how to use the camera - set it on AUTO and go. Bad composition, bad exposure, no post-production corrections - just 800 bad JPEGs on a disc. Potential clients see lots of images for a cheap price and want the same out of you, not realizing that the other schmuck's photos are nowhere near as good as yours.

For the ladies to comprehend, if an escort came on board and started doing one hour full service for $100 she'd get lots of business at first, but at some point she'll be worn out and her service will be lacking. But everybody else will be expecting the other girls to do the same. So you either stick to your rates and give the same good service, or you lower your rates and work harder and eventually give bad service and lose your clients. When the $100 girl is worn out and no longer working, they'll expect a cheap rate from you.

PODarkness · 08-04-2010, 12:52 AM

Quote:

No matter what business you are in. If someone opens shop up next to yours and offers the same/similar service/product that you feel is not the same quality but at a drastically lower cost (including free) and its a service/product that is bought on a regular basis, do you not think it will damage your business? In the long run, yes they will fade away and your business will come back but damage has been done.

If your business is providing a service that any amateur can do (even if badly) getting undercut by new guys is what is called an occupational hazard. Competition from all directions is a very large, and very important part of capitalism.

What you are advocating is protectionism, closed markets, and a more limited selection for the consumer, in order to artificially support higher prices for photography services. You are claiming that through these measures, the customer will get a higher quality service. I don't buy it. Competition creates better quality, and a better range of qualities to choose from, not protectionism.

The highest quality product doesn't always win, or even survive. That's free market for ya. Not flawless, but better than anything else.

johnnybax · 08-04-2010, 09:03 PM

This sub-forum is not intended to be a place for people to argue back and forth about services being offered, it is for people to offer services. If you have a service you would like to offer start your own thread and stop hijacking this one.

Voluptous lily · 08-04-2010, 09:27 PM

See there are a few good men out there, great story, Onceuponanescort.
Voluptouslily

diud-diud · 08-10-2010, 10:46 AM

I remember a discussion like this on modelmayhem. One well respected photographer put it in perspective for me. He said that what he does no one could do for free. He was referring to the time, talent and equipment that goes into his shoots. He mention 3 photographers that if they started doing TFP/TFCD then he would be worried, other than that it doesn't affect what he does. Another photographer also mentioned that if you can't bring more to the table then some guy who can afford to do it for free or $50.00 then YOU should be ashamed of yourself for charging the people YOU conned into paying you.

I do some TFCD work, but I'm only a semi-pro. There are things that I am just unable to do as a matter of time, equipment and regretfully talent and skill. I charge according to what I do not what others do. If someone comes to me with something I can't do, I send them elsewhere.

Yes, my prices are low, but for the most part the people who come to me would not have paid for a $250-$300 package anyway. Not as a matter of not being able to save that much, but not seeing the value of $300 worth of pictures.

I've shot several ECCIE and before that ASPD ladies. And I have shot BP and CL girls. To me selling pictures to providers that you have seen is funny because as one lady told me as I was trying to talk her into using me to shoot some better pictures. "Why do I need different pictures? The ones you saw was good enough to get you here".

DIUD

bigtexinbigd · 08-10-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellaEroticImagery

Threatened? Personally, I dont feel threatened by even those with superior skills/equiptment/studios. We all do our art/craft to the best of our abilities as I'm sure everyone here does. All we (me and the few others who spoke up) are pointing out is although free is not always better, it does its damage to any industry when offered to the general public. Sometimes minor, sometimes major.

If there is no one that beleives that, think about this...

No matter what business you are in. If someone opens shop up next to yours and offers the same/similar service/product that you feel is not the same quality but at a drastically lower cost (including free) and its a service/product that is bought on a regular basis, do you not think it will damage your business? In the long run, yes they will fade away and your business will come back but damage has been done.

I am sorry but I need to butt in here. Business is all about providing a service that someone is willing to pay for the price being a perception of the value of the service provided.

I have been running my own businesses for more than 25 years. There will always be someone providing the same services as you do at a lower and yes a higher price. It i sup to you to provide reasons for your customers and prospective customers to use you. That is what is called "proving value".

Who cares if the original OP want's to take some free pics for a provider! Maybe the provider doesn't fee she can afford a professional at this time. No harm no foul. I recently used several "off-shore" graphic artists I found online because they did a fantastic job and bid $1000's less than local artists. Were their overhead costs lower? YUP! Is that my fault? NOPE! It is all about value. I would have liked to use a local person but I could not justify the cost difference.

I am sure that professional photographers are MUCH better then the OP. But then again the OP wasn't saying he could provide the same level of quality. He just offered some free pics....

sixoseven · 08-10-2010, 08:52 PM

Points have been made on both sides.

I'll be honest, I've done a few free, no strings attached shoots for providers, but only when they had a look I just had to have in my portfolio. I never worry about a guy with a camera offering to take free shots. Hell, anyone can take free shots. But eventually, the lady's notice their images just aren't as good as someone who has been to a professional photographer. And if they don't, then I will always have someone else to shoot.

Soxguy · 08-14-2010, 04:22 PM

OnceUponAnEscort,
I can relate to your comment, "I keep getting confused on the aperture and f-stop settings..."
I have a decent camera with lots of capabilities. The only one I ever use is "AUTO".
Sox

Camille · 09-15-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellaEroticImagery

No matter what business you are in. If someone opens shop up next to yours and offers the same/similar service/product that you feel is not the same quality but at a drastically lower cost (including free) and its a service/product that is bought on a regular basis, do you not think it will damage your business? In the long run, yes they will fade away and your business will come back but damage has been done.

Wrong. You are simply trying to create a monopoly in a free market. Price, is the result of supply and demand...that's how a free market works. The OP has offered supply, several women here have indicated demand. Expecting him to change his MO so you don't have to is not how it works. If you find him to be competition (because he "setup next door to you") then you have to adjust your method of supply to create more demand...not him. It is JUST the same for providers. Price change is often governed by supply and demand. Before anyone says a provider woldn't give it away for free...that's an oxymoron..she's not a provider (i.e. professional) if she is not charging..she is an amateur...and you don't see providers getting pissed at these women because one is building a business out of something that the other is not... so it's a moot issue. The foodstore analogy is wrong. The comparison would be a non-profit org giving away food vs having to pay for it at the grocery store. Profit vs non-profit rarely find themselves in competition. The OP is an amateur photographer too..but he has every right to create his own supply and demand flow as he sees fit. The only way your business will be affected by him is if women choose to use him over you. If he does a bad job they will still come to you anyway...if they return to him then you need to re-evaluate not him. Sorry to be harsh but that's how the free market works..and yes it sucks sometimes but it is what it is and you have to learn to adjust to it.

Camille