false statements on bank loan applications

[VitaMan]

A former top prosecutor for the city of Baltimore was convicted Tuesday on one count of mortgage fraud. Marilyn Mosby testified she unwittingly made false statements on loan applications to buy two Florida vacation homes.


When it comes to Mr. Trump, the MAGA men say he has been unfairly singled out in the NY fraud trial, where he lied on bank loan applications....that everyone does it in his business....and that there was no "victim".


Interesting comparison.

[ICU 812]

It is my understanding that none of Mr. Trump's loans were ever questioned by the lenders. None of these loans were challenged in court by any of the lenders. None of the loans were in default. Everyone got back their principal as well as the agre3ed on vigorish.

The value of real property can only ve established with a handshake and an exchange of money. In real estate, there is no credble MSRP.

[VitaMan]

The topic is false statements on bank loan applications.


Did Mr. Trump do that ? Per all the documents reviewed, the answer seems to be yes. False statements on bank loan applications is against the law.

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

The value of real property can only be established with a handshake and an exchange of money. In real estate, there is no credble MSRP.

Oh- well I wonder how the tax-man goes about creating a sense of value, as well as a lender?

And

If one is incorrect, does the tax guy or the lender file charges- if they were led to believe the value was somehow manipulated?


And lets say a pattern emerges where the 'seller' of said property does the inflation/ deflation game on a consistent basis, then would it not be proper for the legal authorities who oversee the laws on valuations step in???

The time to take corrective actions isn't after the ponzi scheme is over and nobody has a penny in their pocket. It should be done when there is observation of mal-feasance and the intent to dissuade parties of interest, including the tax man, when someone lies about assets values and terms.

An ounce of prevention instead of a pound of cure.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

... where he lied on bank loan applications....

So you're say'n Trump personally filled out those loan apps. Eh? You know, like every CEO of a global real estate corporation does, presumably to save paying professionals and underlings out of his multi-billion personal accounts. That's your theory?!?

I may be able to help you here. Certainly willing to try. Stare at the center of...

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

...An ounce of prevention instead of a pound of cure.

As to the ounce of prevention - try saying you have no clue about how real estate works without saying "you have no clue about how real estate works".

As to the pound of cure - try to borrow $2million bucks to purchase a $200K property and report back to us with your findings.

Also, cut the cord...

[ICU 812]

False statements on ATF forms carry a felony charge.

[VitaMan]

False statements submitted to a federally insured bank, to get the bank to loan you depositors money, is a crime.



The former Baltimore prosecutor is learning that the hard way. Mr. Trump is learning it too, since the only matter left is how much he needs to pay for doing that.

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

So you're say'n Trump personally filled out those loan apps. Eh? You know, like every CEO of a global real estate corporation does, presumably to save paying professionals and underlings out of his multi-billion personal accounts. That's your theory?!?

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

As to the ounce of prevention - try saying you have no clue about how real estate works without saying "you have no clue about how real estate works".

As to the pound of cure - try to borrow $2million bucks to purchase a $200K property and report back to us with your findings.

Apparently you think that the loan applications don't have a statement on the bottom relating to the truthfulness of the application: called a loan attestation statement. It's on 95% of loan applications and CERTAINLY on every application that Trump or any officer of his company signed. Looks like this:

"I do hereby attest that this information is true, accurate and complete to the best of my knowledge and I understand that any falsification, omission, or concealment of material fact may subject me to administrative, civil, or criminal liability"

Having filled out many of these and having worked in the banking side of business for 10 yrs in a prior life, I've seen many of these - specific towards mortgage lending.


Do I think Trump signed these- Yes, certainly some of them. Perhaps he directs a subjective signer in his stay when it's relating to smaller properties or sales, such as a POA, or as a controller.

Your analogy of borrowing 2 million for 200k is a ruse- but I think it's more likely borrow 2 million against a property that he says is worth 1.5mm but is really only worth 1.3mm - which is more likely accurate. And in larger properties, just add zeros.

Funny that you're an apparent real-estate aficionado and don't know anything about over leveraging a property or the consequences of unfair representation of valuations.

Did you never see the attestation clause in a loan application before?


I'd love to see a real balance sheet for the Trump properties that was factual and showed both real cash flow and values.

I'm betting he's deep in the red on cash flow and even upside down on most of the LTV on his properties.I'd go so far as to say, he's literally living month to month on his properties income streams, and leveraged well over 85%. But he'll never show the books to let the public know.

Speaking of LTV- that's a place where banks were likely indeed misled by Trump / Mazars or his controller Weisselberg- Most banks require LTV to be no greater than 90% on personal residential property, and between 85-80% on commercial property, and in some cases much lower such as multi-family at 73% and construction financing at 75%; Larger construction towers etc,are usually in the 70% for commercial loans.

If Trump has cooked up the books to obtain a loan at either a discounted rate for being within the LTV loan margins, then that's fraud, and it could be worse if he's outside of the LTV margins and shouldn't have gotten the loan in the first place.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

...having worked in the banking side of business for 10 yrs in a prior life...

Your analogy of borrowing 2 million for 200k is a ruse- but I think it's more likely borrow 2 million against a property that he says is worth 1.5mm but is really only worth 1.3mm - which is more likely accurate. And in larger properties, just add zeros...

Speaking of LTV- that's a place where banks were likely indeed misled by Trump / Mazars or his controller Weisselberg- Most banks require LTV to be no greater than 90% on personal residential property, and between 85-80% on commercial property, and in some cases much lower such as multi-family at 73% and construction financing at 75%; Larger construction towers etc, are usually in the 70% for commercial loans.

First, you speculate (based on your 10 years of banking experience, cough cough) that Trump was fraudulently able to obtain real estate loans over 150% LTV. ($2 mln against a property worth $1.3 mln.)

Then you tell us most banks will only lend up to 70-85% LTV on commercial properties.

All I can say is - man, that trumpy sure must be a crafty one to snooker banks into busting through their own lending limits like that!

And apparently the banking regulators never caught any of this loosy-goosy stuff either!

[VitaMan]

Mr. Trump is a shady character - and everyone knows it.


Another example: he can't pay back Deutsche bank loans on a commercial project, what does he do ?
He drags out the lawyers and accuses the bank of predatory lending.


You can defend Mr. Trump if you want.


The NY case is now only a matter of how much Mr. Trump will have to pay.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

I'd love to see a real balance sheet for the Trump properties that was factual and showed both real cash flow and values.

Any CPA will tell you a balance sheet carries assets at historical cost, not FMV. And it doesn't show anything about cash flow.

I hope your banking experience didn't involve working in credit underwriting or approval.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Another example: he can't pay back Deutsche bank loans on a commercial project, what does he do?
He drags out the lawyers and accuses the bank of predatory lending.

You can defend Mr. Trump if you want.

Lol - When did he default on a Deutsche Bank loan and accuse them of predatory lending? I must've missed that one.

I'm not defending Trump. I just want all Americans to be treated fairly and equally under the rules of business, banking and law.

[ICU 812]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

The topic is false statements on bank loan applications.


Did Mr. Trump do that ? Per all the documents reviewed, the answer seems to be yes. False statements on bank loan applications is against the law.

In my limited real estate and banking experience, the value of real property can be as "fluid" as the progressive left would have us believe the sex of a pre-pubescent child is.

Apparently, the real value of the properties in question was established by the market as the amount of the loan that was repaid, plus the agreed upon interest. So, Mr. Trump's estimate of the market value was correct for all practical purposes.

In my own humble circumstances, the value of my home is listed differently by the taxing authority, my insurance company and the real estate agents who try to make me a cash offer over the phone. Who is "lying" to me about that? Only by listing the house for sale and negotiating a closing price will solidly establish the value of my home.

[lustylad]

By the way, has anyone looked up the things they went after Marilyn Mosby for? It's really penny ante stuff! Did she default on those 2 Florida mortgages or has she kept her payments up to date?

I wasn't a fan of hers when she was Baltimore DA, but what did she do to get a DOJ target on her back?

There's more to the story than meets the eye... (not referring to another poster here).