The Legalities of BDSM

[ElisabethWhispers]

In another thread, the issue of bloodletting has been introduced. It's a very provocative thread and lead me to wonder a little bit about the overall legality of (for example) punching someone in the gut, smacking their face, leaving them to be suspended and with mutual consent, cutting them.

What are your thoughts about this? I have heard of people serving prison sentences for murder as a result of asphyxiation scenes gone bad, and other situations that have caused jail sentences, etc.

Something to consider if you meet a stranger and decide to explore the dark side of things. Or even with someone that you know.

Thoughts?

[Krunkman]

It's going to vary by state, but there's one common premise that is true everywhere - a person cannot consent to assault. So technically if you were to strike someone, even if they said it was ok, you can be charged with assault by the police. This doesn't happen that often, however. You can imagine the reluctance of any DA trying a case where the defendant's star witness testifies that the action was consensual.

But a good rule of thumb to go by with this is to consider what it's like for a husband and wife fighting. The police can arrest one or both if they feel that domestic violence has occured. And a spouse can be charged and prosecuted by the court even if the battered spouse refuses to press charges or testify or even name them as an attacker. It all comes down to the police investigation and the evidence.

Bottom line is that you need to play safe AND smart.

[Torqueman]

In Texas,simple assault is deemed ANY non-consensual contact that is offensive, A shove would do it.. however if the reciepient is not offended.. then it is not assault. Simple assault is usually by fist.

Aggravated assault, would be assault would involve

a.) used of a deadly weapon, (knife, gun, or

b.) ANY Item that THROUGH THE MANNER OF IT'S INTENDED USE, is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.. Ball Bats, pool que, even a ball point pen...Yeah I know, before someone gots all gaga on that, let some one hold one against your throat and see if it does not raise a minimal concern.

Serious bodily injury is generally deemed to be, one requiring immediate medical attention, like a quick trip to the emergency room, involving broken bones, or hospitalization.

The big deal is CONSENT... there is not a DA in Texas that would touch a consensual injury complaint.. Unless.. consent was withdrawn, (safe word utterance)

Or if the absolute worst happened, and a death ensued. Then more than likely it would be a Criminally Negligent Homicide, not murder.. (lesser penalty group) 2-10yrs fine up to 10K..

I have never heard of a case such as that.. I know that there was a witnessed auto asphyxia death that was ruled accidental.. no charges.. But that was many years ago..

If your gonna get that kinky... a consent letter wouldn't hurt, however, it won't help much either civilly, you cannot sign your rights away in Texas.. The consent letters for skydiving, scuba, race car experiences, bungee jumping.. are all not worth the paper they are written on if the service provider can be shown to be grossly negligent, failed to take reasonable and prudent care, Improper equipment maintenance, or failed to excersise
reasonable and proper care..

[Krunkman]

Great explanation Torqueman.

[FishGuy13]

I seem to rember a CSI (the original Las Vegas one) of someone who died while in a session with a Dom. I don't rember all the details, it was just a show, and laws are a little different every where. Having said that this is one case where a video might be a good idea, but then comes the idea of who might see the tape.
I for one am still exploring my kinky side but am not into pain (or not much) giving or receiving.

[guest043013-2]

Lot of interesting comments.

As far as consent and whether the DA would prosecute.

Oral consent - It becomes a he said/she said (ok, in these cases it may be he said/he said) situation. So, if the injured party says I never consented to having my nuts crushed by the dom with her sharp heel, well, there just may be a prosecution of the dom. Going to be ugly, and probably going to be more a case of negligence (civil matter) than actual guilt (criminal matter). Now if injured party dies, all bets are off. If the dom has a website saying she provides these types of services, might be able to get away with criminally negligent. (rare case where the website might actually be useful to prove that you provide these services and as a rule, most of your clients go home happy.

Written consent- Probably a similar outcome. Argument will be whether the person consented to having their nuts crushed by the dom. The more graphically the consent form describes the type of activities involved, I guess the better the jury can decide if the activities engaged in were at the level consented too.

These types of activities draw certain people because of the risk, or at least the perception of risk involved. Having jumped out of an airplane and dove with sharks and moray eels, I understand the thrill. But in order for the perception of risk and the increased thrill to be present, it really requires a certain risk be there. And all it takes is a little slip of the rope, or the razor in cases of blood letting, and you have a major aw $H!T on your hands.

And what is reasonable and proper care when stomping some guy's balls with your heel or slitting the skin with a razor?

I do think torgueman summarized a lot of the issues very nicely, though I believe there is a difference between assault (a threat) and battery (actual contact).

[Torqueman]

Originally Posted by tigercat

Lot of interesting comments.

As far as consent and whether the DA would prosecute.

Oral consent - It becomes a he said/she said (ok, in these cases it may be he said/he said) situation. So, if the injured party says I never consented to having my nuts crushed by the dom with her sharp heel, well, there just may be a prosecution of the dom. Going to be ugly, and probably going to be more a case of negligence (civil matter) than actual guilt (criminal matter). Now if injured party dies, all bets are off. If the dom has a website saying she provides these types of services, might be able to get away with criminally negligent. (rare case where the website might actually be useful to prove that you provide these services and as a rule, most of your clients go home happy.

Written consent- Probably a similar outcome. Argument will be whether the person consented to having their nuts crushed by the dom. The more graphically the consent form describes the type of activities involved, I guess the better the jury can decide if the activities engaged in were at the level consented too.

These types of activities draw certain people because of the risk, or at least the perception of risk involved. Having jumped out of an airplane and dove with sharks and moray eels, I understand the thrill. But in order for the perception of risk and the increased thrill to be present, it really requires a certain risk be there. And all it takes is a little slip of the rope, or the razor in cases of blood letting, and you have a major aw $H!T on your hands.

And what is reasonable and proper care when stomping some guy's balls with your heel or slitting the skin with a razor?

I do think torgueman summarized a lot of the issues very nicely, though I believe there is a difference between assault (a threat) and battery (actual contact).

Interesting points... I too am an adrenaline junky, however I have flown small aircraft, but I have never seen fit to jump out of a perfectly good one.. I have over 2600 hours of bottom time and DEFINITELY understand the Shark/Moray reference. (got the T-Shirts, several of them) Did a Great Hammerhead Spawn out at the Flower Garden... Flippin AWESOME! Must have been a thousand of them...

In the "Ball Stomping" (major hell no) reasonable and prudent care would be the difference between, light pressure and using full weight and or grinding.. Reasonable and prudent care would be not bringing about the doms full weight, which would easily be interpreted as unreasonable. Grinding, would bring in the culpable mental state of Intent.. thereby making it a full aggravated assault.. Personally, I think that the use of web site in the defense might inflame a jury and MAY not bode well for the defendant. I know of a old Judge or two that it would put over the edge, just a though... but I guess it could in the right circumstance... shaky ground.. I would have to go with defense counsel recommendations on that one.

If some one accidentally slipped and the full weight brought to bare, causing major injury, it would indeed more than likely be a civil matter.. But the judgment would be based upon proving that the slip and fall (on the nuts) was due to a lack of reasonable and prudent care, positioning, preforming on a wet floor where a slip and fall would not be unexpected, spilled lube.. whatever..

IN the event of a death, you are correct, all bets are off, and that is where the charge of Criminally Negligent Homicide would come into play.. It is the same penalty group as Intoxicated Manslaughter.. as the drunk driver did not INTEND to kill anyone, however by his gross negligence in operating impaired, it led to a death. One example of Criminally Negligent Homicide is for instance, you are target shooting, and there are homes behind the target. An errant shot goes through a wall and kills someone... A reasonable and prudent person should have exercised proper care to make sure of a safe back stop and set up in a location where an errant shot would land in an unoccupied or unpopulated area. Same as Shooting into the air on New Years eve... Dummy should have understood basic physics and known that it would come down somewhere.. Light heel pressure is one thing, but I doubt if using a scrotum for a trampoline would be a part of the implied consent.

With the Razor thing (YIKES!), that COULD be interpreted, light cuts as opposed to depth of cuts... I would imagine.. no let me change that.. I CAN'T IMAGINE...

Under Texas Law, a Simple Assault, (Class C Misd.), punishable by up to $200.00 fine) Would include assault by threat, and simple assault not involving serious bodily injury... those classifications include, Assault by Threat (a hard case to make by the way, need witnesses and way to follow up,to wit:Presence of a knife/club, clinched fist with a lunge etc.) (firearms up the anti a bit), Simple Assault, a shove up to knocked the crap out of em, is in the same group, a Class C

[barbosee]

There are some cases where people die horrible (either by accident, such as murder, or consensus) and sometimes murderers are brought to justice because of the recording.

[ALEXIS AND GINGER]

That is kinda scary. .. makes me want to say I we would never sign some form saying you can do this or that to us! It brings to mind also, who in the hell would? Nope don't hurt or kill anyone and would like to keep that going in both directions.