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A Question of Legality Post your legal questions here (general, nothing of a personal nature)

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Old 03-12-2018, 01:21 PM   #1
ICU 812
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Default At What Age Do We get Our Constitutional Rights?

This may not be directly related to The Hobby, but its worth thinking over.

When are we covered by The Constitution? At birth maybe? Citizenship is granted at birth. Yet for most other constitutionally granted rights and protections, the age of majority is considered adulthood.

And yet: The Florida state legislature just raised the age at which a person may purchase any firearm from 18 to 21. While this is legal, it worries me. For the purposes of this thread, please let us set aside all the complexity of gun ownership and all that (please,. In effect, what the state lawmakers have done is to delay the accession of a constitutional right for several years. A state law did this.

If a state's lawmakers may delay the effectiveness of the second amendment for years, someone sometime may decide that most young people are too immature to engage in political speech and prohibit the publication of an editorial by anyone younger than, just to pick a number, age 25. Free speech on the internet is already an issue for some, but I think that ship has sailed long ago. Of course, China is trying to strangle the internet there.

But during the cold war the means of disseminating opinion were controlled in eastern European countries. mimeograph machines, printing presses and typewriters for example. While this may sound absurd her in the USA (I think it is) the absurdity shines a strong light on the basic point. Aqny of our rights could be differed this way.

My discomfort comes from the realization that this legislative approach could be used to side-step any of the constitution's mechanism for amending the basic law of the land. A sole what less absurd scenario: Lawmakers in the State of Massachusetts could raise the age at which a person may purchase a firearm to maybe 85 years old!

Agasin: this is a much wider subject that guns. This could affect everyone in ways most do not expect.
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:00 PM   #2
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Too late
There are age restrictions for cigarettes, alcohol, voting,
There was already age restriction for firearms at age 18
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:36 AM   #3
ICU 812
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This is not about tobacco, alcohol or even guns.

If a state legislature can defer implementation of one set of rights for several years, every amendment in The Bill of Rights may also be deferred, perhaps indefinably.

The ability to publish an editorial essay ( First Amendment; free speech) could be prohibited if the author below the of 25. . . .given that young people are not mature or experienced.

That is an absurd thought now but during the cold war, much of eastern Europe had severe controls on typewriters and printing presses. Free expression was forbidden. Today, China and other countries are trying to strangle the free expression of opinion over the internet and social media.
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Old 03-16-2018, 07:55 AM   #4
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There's an amendment (I dont remember which one) that says that the age of majority is 18. That's supposedly the age where you have all the Constitutional rights of an adult. But the Federal minimum age to buy a handgun is 21. Isn't owning a handgun a Constitutional right of an adult?

Lots of other rights apply no matter what your age. The right to remain silent, or the right to be free from unreasonable searches apply to teenage drivers even though they're clearly not adults.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:08 AM   #5
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I think you're referring to the 26th amendment that sets the voting age at 18 in the US. At least two states have 19 as the age of majority (Alabama and Nebraska).

The age of license varies for different things. Like buying alcohol or cigarettes.
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Old 03-16-2018, 10:06 AM   #6
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It matters not at all, as the constitution is really a dead letter. The federal government simply ignores it whenever it is seriously inconvenient.

Consider: Amendment 4 prohibits "general" warrants and "unreasonable" searches and seizures. That doesn't seem to have slowed down the War on (Some) Drugs, indiscriminate DUI "checkpoints," or the hoovering-up of every single bit of data on the internet, every single email, and every single phone conversation by the federal government, in the form of the NSA. With respect to anything that the government actually wants, there is, effectively, no Fourth Amendment.

I can't recall offhand who said it -- probably Lysander Spooner. But the Constitution either permits the omnipotent central government that now rules us, or has been powerless to prevent it. Either way, what good is it?
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:02 AM   #7
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Anyone want to start a pool bet on when some kid (supported by xxx) will file a federal court lawsuit on this issue?
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Old 03-19-2018, 01:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter View Post
Anyone want to start a pool bet on when some kid (supported by xxx) will file a federal court lawsuit on this issue?
Someone's already done a lawsuit, against walmart and other stores who raised their age, claiming agism.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:39 PM   #9
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Default Do minors have any rights on their own?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark3419 View Post
There's an amendment (I dont remember which one) that says that the age of majority is 18. That's supposedly the age where you have all the Constitutional rights of an adult. But the Federal minimum age to buy a handgun is 21. Isn't owning a handgun a Constitutional right of an adult?

Lots of other rights apply no matter what your age. The right to remain silent, or the right to be free from unreasonable searches apply to teenage drivers even though they're clearly not adults.
Under the age of majority, the parent - or legal guardian can control many of the activities that many minors may believe to be their right. In some cases the parents have been charged for the action of minors because they are suppose to be responsible for the children. For example, using alcohol.

I know a lot of people ignore this. It is still illegal to shoot rabbits from a trolly in some places. ( I think it is Chicago, but haven't read about this is years.) You understand the point.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:49 PM   #10
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Default When has a person grown into an adult.

[QUOTE=ICU 812;1060596162]...
The ability to publish an editorial essay ( First Amendment; free speech) could be prohibited if the author below the of 25. . . .given that young people are not mature or experienced.
Recent studies concerning the development of the brain have stated, without any reservations, that the brain does not fully develop until about 22, or slightly older. Until then, the person should not be considered to be a true adult.

That is the result of the studies: who agrees fully with that? People can, and do, accomplish many things at 18. That is a given. But, how many of us have seen 18 to 21 year old people do some really stupid things that a slightly older person would not even consider.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
Someone's already done a lawsuit, against walmart and other stores who raised their age, claiming agism.
A recent story in the Wall Street Journal discussed the large amount of lost sales at Dick's Sporting Goods in all areas of sales. The conclusion is that when the age for the purchase of guns was raised to 21, a large number of people just took their business elsewhere. They were hit hard.

People voted with their feet, and are not returning to Dick's. Maybe the liberal thinkers will someday learn that people have just had enough of the bull shit liberalism.
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Old 03-20-2018, 11:05 AM   #12
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The way I understand is that any law etc. that is in violation is not a law! Good luck with a court these days agreeing!

Any way other countries don't have Constitutional Rights. That includes those that live in the USA!

That being said, one persons rights end when what they do infringe on someone else's! I forget who 'from the early years' stated so.
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Old 03-21-2018, 05:46 AM   #13
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You realize you are debating/discussing this issue on a hooker review board....right??
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:42 AM   #14
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[QUOTE=sjohnlewis;1060619589]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICU 812 View Post
...
The ability to publish an editorial essay ( First Amendment; free speech) could be prohibited if the author below the of 25. . . .given that young people are not mature or experienced.
Recent studies concerning the development of the brain have stated, without any reservations, that the brain does not fully develop until about 22, or slightly older. Until then, the person should not be considered to be a true adult.

That is the result of the studies: who agrees fully with that? People can, and do, accomplish many things at 18. That is a given. But, how many of us have seen 18 to 21 year old people do some really stupid things that a slightly older person would not even consider.
Brain development, etc. is exactly the basis for not sentencing juveniles to death anymore, no matter how heinous the crime. It's behind the push for eliminating LWOP (life without opportunity for parole) as well. The age of majority really needs to be 20, IMHO. That would put kids out of high school and their teenage years. And most people agree about the teenage brain not being fully developed especially relating to reasoning skills and the ability to realize consequences.

However, there is one prevailing reason this is NOT going to happen. It's the US military. Without a constant stream of 18-19 year olds who are able to enlist without parental consent, our military simply would not function.
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Old 03-21-2018, 05:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Highlight View Post
You realize you are debating/discussing this issue on a hooker review board....right??
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What Age Do We get Our Constitutional Rights?
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