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A Question of Legality Post your legal questions here (general, nothing of a personal nature)


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Old 05-11-2010, 11:31 PM   #16
Grouchy
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Old Cop Saying.... You may can beat the rap but you're not going to beat the ride.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:40 PM   #17
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I agree with all that has been said about once you show up you will be arrested. So the goal is to detect LE before ever showing up.

Both clients and providers should screen. The use of P411, Datecheck, etc doesn't remove all risk but greatly reduces it. References from other trusted clients or providers also reduces risk. Boards such as this one help you get a feel for who is well known and well reviewed, again risk reducing factors.

It is also helpful to be in control of the encounter. Setting the time and place, and avoiding situations where you are kept in the dark until the last moment are all control factors. LE will try to control the entire environment. If seeing someone new, observing the location for a while beforehand can be very revealing if LE is around. You can't expect to see marked cars or uniforms standing around, but it is unlikely the door of the room will be closed and silent for longer than 30 minutes if a sting is in progress.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:58 PM   #18
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I am too lazy to go look it up, but I think a provider recently started an excellent thread that included several videos produced by an ACLU group in Chicago that even includes scenario videos to practice with. It included lectures from law professors, criminal lawyers, and retired police detectives.

If I find it I will link it, but if there is somebody here more adept at site surfing, please feel free to beat me to it.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbreeze0003 View Post
I agree with all that has been said about once you show up you will be arrested. So the goal is to detect LE before ever showing up.
Not true. I know of several cases where the victim didn't do the wrong thing, and ended up walking away from a sting operation unscathed.

I do believe you may get busted even if you do the right things, but it doesn't always happen.

Doing the right thing DOES improve your chances of walking away unmolested. It may also reduce the problems after the arrest.
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:44 AM   #20
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http://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=15071
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:01 PM   #21
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These lectures are in keeping with the information previously shared. They're worth watching.

"Don't Talk to the Police" by Professor James Duane - 27:25 - May 21, 2008
James Duane explains why innocent people should never talk to the police.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...yHZP8rQL4p6iSBA

"Don't Talk to the Police" by Officer George Bruch - 21:13 - May 21, 2008
George Bruch from the Virginia Beach police department responds to Professor James Duane's presentation on why innocent people should never talk to the police.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...458915912&hl=en
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PODarkness View Post
A really good video, explaining the many reasons to shut the fuck up.

Be sure and watch part 2 as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

This is a great video and I agree both parts should be watched. I can say that this advice got "a friend" out of a jam.
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:20 AM   #23
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Amen to that GneissGuy. It's simple to avoid breaking the solicitation laws in Texas, but in some cities or counties the police will make an arrest even if you didn't break the law. When I was practicing, the law in Texas was that someone being placed under arrest could actually resist the arrest forcefully if the arrest was illegal. Please do not do this though because I'm not certain that such is still the law, and furthermore standing on principal in such situations can get you hurt. I advise cooperation under you can bond out, and then seek a dismissal, which they are expecting you to prevail in anyway.

Best to hobby only in cities and counties where the policy is known, and it's to enforce the law only, without making illegal arrests.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:25 AM   #24
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Most cops will not smoke crack or shoot heroin with you; however, there are always some who will. You just can't be sure.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
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When I was practicing, the law in Texas was that someone being placed under arrest could actually resist the arrest forcefully if the arrest was illegal.
The counterargument to that is that they have more guns and goons than you do. "Dead and right" is still "dead."
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Old 06-05-2010, 06:07 PM   #26
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Thats what happened at Waco and how did that turn out. Of the 13 branch davidians tried for murder and attempted murder all of them were found not guility because you can defend yourself from illegal police action, however the rest of the resisters did not fair very well.
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reginaldlivingstonIII View Post
Amen to that GneissGuy. It's simple to avoid breaking the solicitation laws in Texas, but in some cities or counties the police will make an arrest even if you didn't break the law. When I was practicing, the law in Texas was that someone being placed under arrest could actually resist the arrest forcefully if the arrest was illegal. Please do not do this though because I'm not certain that such is still the law, and furthermore standing on principal in such situations can get you hurt. I advise cooperation under you can bond out, and then seek a dismissal, which they are expecting you to prevail in anyway.

Best to hobby only in cities and counties where the policy is known, and it's to enforce the law only, without making illegal arrests.
The best thing you could do for this group, would be to stop posting.
That has never been the law, and I doubt you ever practiced law.
Even arrested illegally you must never fight back. Even if the arrest is determined "wrongful" as in "wrongful arrest" which is the correct listing for it. You will then have to face resisting arrest charges or worse yet, assaulting an officer. By law in all states in the U.S.A. You are required to cooperate with any law enforcement agent. This includes them arresting you. But your limits are only cooperating in the arrest not providing any information.
As many of the better informed have said. SHUT UP say absolutely nothing. "you can't beat the ride", if your going in then your going in,
but you "can beat the crime". Keep your mouth shut, don't matter how nice, how offensive, how degrading, how rude, how helpful, how friendly, how supportive etcc... anyone is, I don't care if it's a female dispatcher they pulled from 911 phones. Keeep you damn mouth shut.
It's all about money, if they can't be sure to get a prosecution they will start figuring the cost of prosecuting you verses there possible failure.
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Old 06-07-2010, 06:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_davis View Post
SHUT UP say absolutely nothing. "you can't beat the ride", if your going in then your going in, but you "can beat the crime". Keep your mouth shut, don't matter how nice, how offensive, how degrading, how rude, how helpful, how friendly, how supportive etcc... anyone is, I don't care if it's a female dispatcher they pulled from 911 phones. Keeep you damn mouth shut.
It's all about money, if they can't be sure to get a prosecution they will start figuring the cost of prosecuting you verses there possible failure.
In other words, if you get in the same room as LE you ARE getting ARRESTED. No way around it. Period.

Just keep your mouth shut and you wont get CONVICTED.

Two different words, very important difference.
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Old 06-08-2010, 08:16 PM   #29
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Hello everyone - I'm new and this is my first post! I don't mean to tell a bunch of old pros how it's done, especially since I'm brand new to this sort of thing. However, I think I have a pretty fool-proof way of not getting arrested. I meet the girl for dinner first! If she won't meet me in a public place then forget it. I'm definately NOT going to some hotel room - that's just asking to get arrested IMO. I'm not going to invite them to my room either, only to have them show up with some pimp or be butt ugly and not who I thought they were. IMO, no way are LEOs going to take the time and resources to send an undercover to meet you for dinner.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there. It may not be how you like to handle your dates, but it makes me feel a hell of a lot safer. As has been pointed out, it doesn't matter if you're convicted, you're going for a ride, gonna have to hire an attorney and might get your picture in the paper. Not me man - I'd rather stay home and jerk off!

Anyway, I hope this might help someone. Feel free to educate me if I'm offbase. Like I say though, if the girl isn't up for a free dinner, in a public place, then fuhget about it!
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:49 PM   #30
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Why wouldn't a cop meet you for dinner? If they want a bust they'll do whatever it takes. Look at how much time they put into other stings. If your goal is to have sex with her, then at some point you'll have to go to her room or your room/house. Dinner won't make a damned bit of difference. It'll just take longer to get you in cuffs. I think only a fool would think this is foolproof. No offense. Unless you just want to have dinner with her. Then what's the point?
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