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Old 07-28-2014, 11:19 AM   #76
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Right, and we are to teach our offspring to respect them? Naw.... Same thing... you call them for help and you are in trouble. The sooner these folks out in the suburbs get what the inner city folks have been saying for decades... we'll be cool. Unfortunately, I have had to teach mine, that we handle our issues internally. The police are more for protecting the rights of the real criminal than the rights of us little victims. STFU
That's actually not accurate. Don't get it twisted: cops do their jobs, for the most part, very well.

You just have to remember that 'helping you' is not in their job description.

Keep the peace? Sure.

Uphold the law? You bet.

Put themselves between you and harm, if necessary? Sometimes it comes to that.

But woe betide you if you did something that put you on their 'to do' list. They don't have the luxury of doing anything but following the rules, especially nowadays, when cell-phones are everywhere and one mis-step can mean your job.

Compassion has been bred out of the modern police force - it is seen as a liability.


....and teaching your kids to not respect the police is a good way to end up visiting them in jail, or worse - even if you don't like them you'd better respect the fact that they have a badge and a gun and can, if given sufficient reason, shoot you dead and get away with it.

When dealing with the cops, keeping calm, restricting sudden movements to a minimum, and acting as if they are very, very dangerous sleeping tigers that should not be poked, prodded and provoked - well, those are just basic fricking survival skills.

Oh, and for the love of god, when a cop tells you to leave, and you are in a public place? Go. Just go. If ya stay, you are probably getting a set of bracelets and a trip in a cop car. IJS.
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Old 12-15-2015, 07:07 AM   #77
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Few other things to remember when dealing with cops they are allowed to LIE when questioning you. Remember once you are in the criminal justice system you are just a number and frankly cops get there jollies by destroying someone’s life (even if innocent) than doing the right thing which is to discover the truth and evidence to support that truth and then turn it over to the DA to decide what to do.

The best thing you can ever do is to keep your mouth shut and lawyer up.
There is the element of politics as well. The DA can choose to drop a case for any reason or go after something hard that seems ridiculous. You rarely see major resources in LE dedicated prostitution.

However, I would not say a word. LE's job is to make arrests. They are experts at intimidation and playing to your fears whether they have any real evidence or not. You make it easy for them to make assumptions when you open your month. Then use what you say against you to make an arrest. Suppose they do have surveillance video, they probably still have nothing but you would definitely want to shut up and get a blood-sucker.

My understand is that most LE will show up due to complaints from neighbors. Some nosy neighbor with nothing else to do will notice 10 different guys per day coming in and out of the same girls apartment. They get noticed usually due to poor TCB. If the provider sees AA you will greatly increase potential for getting notices. (IE: Not DWB but FWB). Of course this will depend on the neighborhood.

But if you are stopped while on foot and the cop is a fat-ass, run! (joking, sort of)
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:04 AM   #78
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I beat a DWI charge by telling the office nothing. Every time he ask a question I just answered by saying I want an attorney first. Did this about 20 times and then he yelled at me "YOUR NOT ENTITLED TO AN ATTORNEY". Didn't take any tests or blow.

At trial the jury listened to the video and my attorney argured his client is always entitled to an attorned and that it is not a crime to not talk with a police officer. 15 minutes and "not guilty".
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Old 07-08-2017, 02:35 AM   #79
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SJ,

If a person is arrested and NOT read his/her Miranda Rights, how should this be dealt with by the arrested person(s)?

Also...

In Texas, is it true that, unless you are suspected of having committed or in the process of committing a crime OR lawfully detained/arrested, you do not have to produce your identification for a police officer just because they ask for it?

Thank you.
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Old 07-08-2017, 01:54 PM   #80
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SJ, seems to be busy so I will answer your 2 question KKA.

1. Your first question deals with being Mirandized. You have a right to remain silent. Exercise that right. You should NEVER answer any questions by police officers or attorneys representing the State without your attorney present. If you are under arrest and questioned without being mirandized, any answers MAY or MAY NOT be inadmissible in court.. I am referring to any res gestae statement you make CAN be used against you as it is an exception to the hearsay rule. Bottom line, keep your mouth shut and only tell LE or attorneys representing the state that you are invoking your right to counsel and that you would be happy to talk to LE but will NOT answer any questions unless and until your attorney is present.

2. Your next question deals with TPC, Section 38.02(a), Failure to Identify. A person commits an offense if he/she refuses to give his/her name, residence address or date of birth to a Peace Officer who has lawfully arrested the person and who has requested the information.Therefore, the answer to your question is you do not have to produce your identification for a police officer just because they ask for it. As an example, you are standing at a bus stop waiting on the bus, LE rolls up and asks for your ID, you ask the officer if you are under arrest, he/she says no, you tell the officer, here comes the bus, have a nice day and get on the bus. No crime has been committed. I am NOT saying you will NOT be arrested but I am saying if you are are arrested for Failure to Identify, that arrest is unlawful.
As another example, you are standing at the bus stop selling drugs, LE rolls up and arrests you for POCS With Intent to Deliver, they demand your ID and you refuse to identify yourself. You have committed a second crime of Failure to Identify.

So in conclusion, keep your mouth shut, invoke your right to counsel and not concern yourself with Miranda warnings. If you are NOT under arrest, you do NOT have to identify yourself.. As a side note, if your NOT wanted or committing a crime, identify yourself if asked, it will save you a lot of hassle.
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Old 07-08-2017, 05:12 PM   #81
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SJ, seems to be busy so I will answer your 2 question KKA.

1. Your first question deals with being Mirandized. You have a right to remain silent. Exercise that right. You should NEVER answer any questions by police officers or attorneys representing the State without your attorney present. If you are under arrest and questioned without being mirandized, any answers MAY or MAY NOT be inadmissible in court.. I am referring to any res gestae statement you make CAN be used against you as it is an exception to the hearsay rule. Bottom line, keep your mouth shut and only tell LE or attorneys representing the state that you are invoking your right to counsel and that you would be happy to talk to LE but will NOT answer any questions unless and until your attorney is present.

2. Your next question deals with TPC, Section 38.02(a), Failure to Identify. A person commits an offense if he/she refuses to give his/her name, residence address or date of birth to a Peace Officer who has lawfully arrested the person and who has requested the information.Therefore, the answer to your question is you do not have to produce your identification for a police officer just because they ask for it. As an example, you are standing at a bus stop waiting on the bus, LE rolls up and asks for your ID, you ask the officer if you are under arrest, he/she says no, you tell the officer, here comes the bus, have a nice day and get on the bus. No crime has been committed. I am NOT saying you will NOT be arrested but I am saying if you are are arrested for Failure to Identify, that arrest is unlawful.
As another example, you are standing at the bus stop selling drugs, LE rolls up and arrests you for POCS With Intent to Deliver, they demand your ID and you refuse to identify yourself. You have committed a second crime of Failure to Identify.

So in conclusion, keep your mouth shut, invoke your right to counsel and not concern yourself with Miranda warnings. If you are NOT under arrest, you do NOT have to identify yourself.. As a side note, if your NOT wanted or committing a crime, identify yourself if asked, it will save you a lot of hassle.

Doc,

Thank you for taking the time to provide that information but the answer to my first question is not really what I was looking for or asking.

If a person is arrested and NOT ever read their Miranda Rights, SHOULD or COULD they do anything about that fact, I mean assuming they wanted that fight and had the time and money to do so? Additionally, I have also seen entire cases no matter how big thrown out completely all just due to the fact that Miranda Rights were not read at time of arrest. How common is this?

About the Failure to Identify....you advised that if not a wanted criminal or otherwise, one should simply do what LE asks and save oneself hassle....while I can completely understand this....I do not wholly agree. Most of why is another topic altogether but the bottom line is that Civil Servants have forgotten their place in the recent years as well as that of an individual citizens Constitutional Rights. I should have the right to go about my business and not be accosted by police or forced to hand over my ID if I have done nothing wrong simply because they ask for it or wrongly think they are entitled to it. Furthermore, because it isn't against the law it should not be perceived by LE that I have something I am hiding because I have refused to do so. Same difference when STFU when one gets arrested. Just because a person evokes their right to remain silent LE likes to assume it must be because the person is guilty.

Just my .02.

Thanks again for your time and answers.

KKA
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:39 PM   #82
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KKA, you were right to address this question the SJ, and would be wise to wait for his response. In the meantime, isn't there something you were supposed to have taken care of by now?
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Old 07-08-2017, 07:52 PM   #83
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KKA, you were right to address this question the SJ, and would be wise to wait for his response. In the meantime, isn't there something you were supposed to have taken care of by now?

LOL.... cb, I know I'm way behind deadline. This week, I promise.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:03 PM   #84
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KKA, it is very common that LE does NOT Mirandize you at the time of your arrest. If LE does not question you, why should they? The street level officer does not interrogate you, that is left to investigators, for the most part. When investigators question you, you will not only be read your rights but you will also initial and sign a statement in which you acknowledge you were read and understand your rights. Any questioning by LE or attorneys representing the state will be preceded by the afore mentioned procedure. Failure to do so does not lead to grounds for a lawsuit. It leads to any information obtained during questioning being possibly inadmissible in a hearing. LE is not dumb. They won't risk questioning you and NOT reading you your rights. I hope that answers your 1st question.

CB, I assure you SJ will concur with my responses. I have read enough of his responses to questions to know this.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:24 PM   #85
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LOL.... cb, I know I'm way behind deadline. This week, I promise.
I will be patient, just as you should be, waiting for SJ to respond.

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CB, I assure you SJ will concur with my responses.
Please, it's cb (not to be confused with CB, CD, CDB, CBJ, CBT, TCB, BBCR or LD's BBC).
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Old 07-11-2017, 06:05 AM   #86
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KKA, it is very common that LE does NOT Mirandize you at the time of your arrest. If LE does not question you, why should they? The street level officer does not interrogate you, that is left to investigators, for the most part. When investigators question you, you will not only be read your rights but you will also initial and sign a statement in which you acknowledge you were read and understand your rights. Any questioning by LE or attorneys representing the state will be preceded by the afore mentioned procedure. Failure to do so does not lead to grounds for a lawsuit. It leads to any information obtained during questioning being possibly inadmissible in a hearing. LE is not dumb. They won't risk questioning you and NOT reading you your rights. I hope that answers your 1st question.

CB, I assure you SJ will concur with my responses. I have read enough of his responses to questions to know this.

Ok, yes, that answered my question. Thank you. I was under the impression that an individual HAD to be read the Miranda Rights no matter what for any and all arrests. And if they weren't read then the case could be completely dismissed just on those grounds. So yeah, I get it now and thanks for your answer.

KKA
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:51 AM   #87
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If you are UNDER ARREST the officer has to read you your rights prior to questioning per Miranda Warning or risk any info you might divulge to him/her being excluded at trial.

Just being arrested does not mean your rights will automatically be read to you.

If the officer is not asking you questions & you are voluntarily giving up info you are placing yourself in jeopardy.

Doc H advise is spot on
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:21 PM   #88
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One scenario that interests me is when you are not under arrest but being questioned. I.E. The officer is investigating and questions you but has a not yet arrested you ? Can what you say be used against you ? Can you refuse to answer ? If you are not under arrest does Miranda even exist ?
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:24 PM   #89
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The Fifth Amendment applies 24/7 in every circumstance.
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If you are not under arrest does Miranda even exist ?
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Old 08-20-2017, 10:01 AM   #90
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On this same theme. From watching live pd and the like I see cops stop people in cars at hotels parking lots or in certain areas and ask them for their ID. They then ask what they are up to, where they are going and where they came from. The people usually give some lame reply which sounds like complete BS.

So say I go to meet a provider who gives me their hotel or incall address at a house or hotel and I'm then supposed to text for a room number. I send the text and then wait what seems like forever waiting for the room number or the ok to go to their front door (A certain SA provider may have you in her driveway for 30 minutes waiting).

So what happens if a LEO comes up and starts asking those questions or who you're here to see? Taking the 5th off the bat doesn't sound like the best idea. Oh and I can't lie to save my life. Secondly, when you go into a hotel and are looking for a room and the staff asks you who you're looking for and the only name you know is Sally Swallows a lot, what's a good reply?

-deer in the headlights
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