Backpage - good or evil?

[myredlightstory]

I posted the blog below on our site and was wondering whether anybody here had any further insights or views on this topic. Thanks, editor, My Red Light Story.

The Backpage Controversy

The controversy over Backpage allowing prostitution ads exploded into view last month when Nicholas Kristoff, op-ed columnist of the New York Times and frequent writer about trafficking, published a column, "How Pimps Use the Web to Sell Girls." I found the column unnecessarily alarming and unbalanced on a factual basis, as I'll explain. What I find really lacking, however, is a proper discussion of the underlying moral and cultural issues. For example, what about all the sex workers working on a consensual basis who might actually be safer because of avenues such as Backpage?

Is it possible that society is actually better off with services such as this than without? Those questions, however, are more complicated, so some of the facts first. Kristoff said in his column, "The episode also shines a spotlight on how the girl was marketed - in ads on Backpage.com, a major national Web site where people place ads to sell all kinds of things, including sex. It is a godsend to pimps, allowing customers to order a girl online as if she were a pizza."

He goes on to say that attorney generals had identified 22 states in which pimps had used Backpage to market underage girls. He concludes that Backpage has resisted taking down prostitution ads because these generate a lot of revenue for the company, mentioning $22 million annually.

It's easy to conclude from this that the attorney generals might be correct in applying pressure on Backpage to stop this business, at least until one gets some more facts, such as the ones that appeared in a Forbes column the following day titled, "Backpage Takes Heat, But Prostitution Ads Are Everywhere." Forbes points out that all ads on Backpage require payment by credit card, free personals included, and that Backpage responds immediately to subpoenas for information. The Forbes columnist says that a Backpage executive told him that Backpage has 123 moderators checking the ads for what might be underage prostitution.

In other words, if you were a trafficker or pimp coercing women, the quickest and stupidest way of getting caught would be to post ads on Backpage, especially with underage women. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, since abuse has apparently been documented. Overall it seems like the instances of abuse are being blown out of proportion. Sex trafficking is a global problem, but is Backpage really the place where these women are predominantly sold? I don't have the definitive answer to that but I suspect the answer is no. It is, however, a visible and increasingly "high-profile" target, and so law enforcement can target it and make it seem like they are making strides against trafficking. Just like when they pressured Craigslist to stop their prostitution ads, to no real actual effect since those ads persist, albeit more discretely.

Forbes further stated, "… it's also the online equivalent of a European red-light district, contained and easily monitored by the police," to which the attorney general McKenna said in a follow-up statement, "... police directly involved in rescuing women and girls from pimps are overwhelmingly opposed to such sites." I guess if you're focused just on removing possible avenues for abusive pimps, this makes sense. But it ignores all the workers operating consensually.

I know a number of escorts who mostly use escort review boards or escort promotional sites for marketing themselves, but they do also occasionally post on Backpage for additional business. It's not their top choice because they tend to be contacted by either less experienced or flaky clients. The degree of protection is nowhere near as high as on review boards on which clients themselves can establish "safe" reputations.

The real benefit of services such as Backpage is that it provides a safer avenue for sex workers than alternatives such as street walking. Using Backpage, a sex worker can spend some time talking to a client on the telephone and develop some sense of the client. The worker can also ask for references (other workers the client has seen), and can verify that the client is safe. None of this is possible on the street. Still, Backpage is a fairly dangerous place for both clients and providers. Any experienced person on either side will prefer the review boards that have much more sophisticated means for both client and provider to learn about each other before meeting while still retaining anonymity. Backpage can, however, serve as a stepping stone to these.

According to comments I've seen in escort forum discussions, there are a lot of pimps that use Backpage. How much of this involves coercion is impossible to tell. What percentage of the consensual liaisons negotiated using Backpage involves pimps is also impossible to tell. Bottom line, Backpage is a rough, anything-can-happen environment for both clients and sex workers. I do believe it's still safer than street walking, but it's far from ideal.

Are sex workers better off for having Backpage available? Is society better off? One way of answering this difficult question would be to try to quantify, or at least estimate, how much harmful activity there is versus harmless. I expect the harmless and consensual levels would outweigh the harmful levels. This approach would obviously be unacceptable to anybody who is morally opposed to prostitution, but it makes sense if you accept prostitution as inevitable, and in some ways natural, and my expectation is that it would show that overall, services like Backpage do more good than harm.

(If anybody has any information or comments that might help answer the questions this blog poses, please let me know and I will give them visibility.)

[Shayla]

Backpage isn't that bad when you consider that the majority of these board members troll backpage anyway.

[Guest041413-2]

Trafficking is all-together UNACCEPTABLE and must be exposed if ever uncovered. However, it is quite obvious that the worse real-life horror stories out there exist in the darkest corners of existence versus being plastered on the internet, i.e. Backpage. Sure some exist on Backpage but the depraved lifestyle exists in abundance "off the grid". Which makes it all the more deplorable and hard to be tracked/anniliated.

Backpage, well there are good to bad stories, enough for all to share. But, it serves it's purpose. For the new lady starting out to the very experienced, Backpage generates a lot of business along with it's inherent risks.

I have used Backpage in my earlier days, but I refuse to in this day and age. I lump CL, EROS and Backage together from a hobbyist experience-view. I stay the hell away from all of those. Not yanking ECCIE's chain but I utilize ECCIE and P411 synergistically in my recon. I don't even trust a fem's website until filtered through ECCIE/P411.

I do NOT judge any fem who uses Backpage, as many here do. I find them here or P411 though. Anyone who uses Backpage, be verwy, verwy cwareful. LOL

[charlestudor2005]

I lump CL, EROS and Backage together from a hobbyist experience-view. I stay the hell away from all of those. Not yanking ECCIE's chain but I utilize ECCIE and P411 synergistically in my recon. I don't even trust a fem's website until filtered through ECCIE/P411.

Agreed. I have much the same POV. But I'm not nearly as perfect in my screening process.

[Guest041413-2]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Agreed. I have much the same POV. But I'm not nearly as perfect in my screening process.

charlestudor, you make me laugh. Unfortunately, I'm laughing at you, not with you. You sound miserable. And, I see why. You're looking at my nuts(look up dude). Me, I've got my eyes on 'the prize'-I'm under Shayla.

Either way, thanks for the laughs.

BTW, never screen with the man downstairs. Gotta do recon dude. Have fun. And, most importantly, GO WITH A SMILE!

[Guest022315]

Originally Posted by mijo(BFE)

I have used Backpage in my earlier days, but I refuse to in this day and age. I lump CL, EROS and Backage together from a hobbyist experience-view. I stay the hell away from all of those. Not yanking ECCIE's chain but I utilize ECCIE and P411 synergistically in my recon. I don't even trust a fem's website until filtered through ECCIE/P411.

I do NOT judge any fem who uses Backpage, as many here do. I find them here or P411 though. Anyone who uses Backpage, be verwy, verwy cwareful. LOL

They are all the same imho. I dont use backpage but I am aware of eccie providers who currently use BP as an advertising venue. To me all of the sites you mentioned are nothing but advertising mediums. Nothing more nothing less. You do have horror stories from all of these advertising mediums. Look up Charlie Knox of Dallas on eccie if you dont believe. Or the female hobbiest of dallas who beaten up by a p411 bastard with 17 ok's. IJS IMHO danger is everywhere just make sure you do your due diligence to minimize the danger

[davidsmith0123]

It is hard to answer if society is better off without knowing 'society's' preferences. The religious right, and certain of the feminist persuasion, will do all they can to stop prostitution, including stopping craigslist and backpage and whatever in order to reach their ultimate goal. If that is society, then backpage is evil. Those participating in the hobby almost certainly do not object to internet adverts, and again are not likely to object to backpage (whether or not they actually use it themselves). If they are society, then backpage is acceptable. Don't know about all the others. I would hope that a free country, with freedom of speech, with a (fairly) free economy, with that famous document claiming "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", would support backpage's right to exist regardless of whatever is their private opinion. After all, what is the externality, the impact on others, of backpage existing, or more broadly, of prostitution existing. I do not believe, and I doubt it can be proved, that backpage ALONE is responsible for underage prostitution. In fact, I think the whole issue is overblown, but I could be convinced of the contrary with appropriate evidence. All I can say is that, personally, I have never seen a provider anywhere near being underage, and I think I would 'card' anyone who I thought was near the line. (OK, foot in mouth, now I have to 'card' my atf when next we meet...)

I am pessimistic about the long run state of freedom in the USA. That no doubt means I am not in the middle, politically, of this issue. But I support backpage, and its right to operate, even while I have never used backpage in the hobby, and likely never will. (I will confess that I have looked....)

[LynnT]

Both. lol

Any ad site is just a tool use it for good or evil. Even the screening sites are just a tool. Seedy people are everywhere and they were around well before the internet now its just easier to find victims and everyone needs to think twice..

Im a BP advertiser it works for my area ECCIE is maybe 2% of my business. Now when I travel an hour from me in NY ECCIE is what does work.

[lisa.lisa0302]

As in anything as you use, just depends on how you use it.

Not sure why people blame adult advertising sites for problems. Its not like backpage has a sign saying please bring your young girls here.


Its pretty useless, people are going to do what they want to do anyway, if backpage goes away, they will move on to another site.

[Yowzer]

I say: Thank goodness for BackPage! Why: It keeps (most) of the heat away from the "real" hobby web sites. I only wish is ECCIE would "close its doors" to outsiders who do not register with the site so google doesn't find posts or providers.

People like to have something to vilify. It used to be Craig's List; now it's BP. Let them as long as they don't come after my precious, my precious, my precious: ECCIE! As long as there is the world's oldest profession, there will be outlets for them to advertise.

There have been some other threads in the Houston section about a recent fox news story about "Free the captives". http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news...obref=obinsite Guess who they blame: BackPage of course! (For underage and exploted women).

My contention is the way to "solve the problem" is to make it easier for the underage and exploited women to both report abusers, find shelter, aid, etc. Not to go after clients (as the news article implies). Does going after drug users stop the war on drugs? Or is it better to go after the trafficers? (Not wanting to go into the merits of having or repealing drug laws, etc).

[alluringava]

Originally Posted by mijo(BFE)

Trafficking is all-together UNACCEPTABLE and must be exposed if ever uncovered. However, it is quite obvious that the worse real-life horror stories out there exist in the darkest corners of existence versus being plastered on the internet, i.e. Backpage. Sure some exist on Backpage but the depraved lifestyle exists in abundance "off the grid". Which makes it all the more deplorable and hard to be tracked/anniliated.

Backpage, well there are good to bad stories, enough for all to share. But, it serves it's purpose. For the new lady starting out to the very experienced, Backpage generates a lot of business along with it's inherent risks.

I have used Backpage in my earlier days, but I refuse to in this day and age. I lump CL, EROS and Backage together from a hobbyist experience-view. I stay the hell away from all of those. Not yanking ECCIE's chain but I utilize ECCIE and P411 synergistically in my recon. I don't even trust a fem's website until filtered through ECCIE/P411.

I do NOT judge any fem who uses Backpage, as many here do. I find them here or P411 though. Anyone who uses Backpage, be verwy, verwy cwareful. LOL

The problem with Backpage and Craigslist ( and I don't want to knock anyone who used it previously) from my own personal experience is that there were only LAST MINUTE calls. Now, for some of my working friends here where I live, the last minute calls or 24/7 availability was how they made their living, and Craigslist and BP seemed to work really well for that. But that's not my method of working. One time I tested it out some years ago by posting an ad on Craigslist and there were definitely some weirdos that called from there. A much higher percentage than any other site. Same with BP.

[charlestudor2005]

I prefer to plan my time and hobby expenditures. BP doesn't lend itself to that.

Even ECCIE and P411 are marginal at times. Last weekend I put out probably 4 requests on P411 and 2 or 3 to non-P411 ladies with ECCIE showcases. None of the ECCIE ladies got back to me at all. 3/4 of the P411 ladies got back to me late (IMO). It's hard to set up an appointment with good planning when the responses aren't timely.

[Guest041413-2]

Originally Posted by Thatdude

They are all the same imho. I dont use backpage but I am aware of eccie providers who currently use BP as an advertising venue. To me all of the sites you mentioned are nothing but advertising mediums. Nothing more nothing less. You do have horror stories from all of these advertising mediums. Look up Charlie Knox of Dallas on eccie if you dont believe. Or the female hobbiest of dallas who beaten up by a p411 bastard with 17 ok's. IJS IMHO danger is everywhere just make sure you do your due diligence to minimize the danger

That is crazy. I abhor violence of any kind be it physical, psychological, emotional, financial, character assasination ("outing" in the hobby world), etc.

Wow! That is why I make sure we BOTH enjoy the moment. I know not all experiences for the fems I select are great. That is really unfortunate...(I just got interupted, forgot my thought process...will pick up later, if at all)

[telos]

I rarely use craigslist or backpage, When I did, I was traveling extensively, while both served my need, it's a crapshoot in that sometimes you win, more often you lose.
I prefer to plan out my encounters days ahead with providers from ECCIE or P 411, but recently the communication is lacking . I sent out a couple of requests on ECCIE/ P 411, nada replies, I succumbed to that primal urge and utilized backpage to meet my need.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by telos

I sent out a couple of requests on ECCIE/ P 411, nada replies, I succumbed to that primal urge and utilized backpage to meet my need.

I'd rather have a sure thing with Rosy Palm than take that kind of chance.