How common is it for fear of rejection to be the primary reason a man utilizes escorts?

[cinderbella]

Originally Posted by AdventurousMouse

On the other hand, a woman I'm with non-transactionally will lose interest in me if I say/do even one "wrong" thing.

Past experience most certainly explains a lot. The fact no girls I expressed interest in when I was in middle school/high school were into me set me down a long path of failure.

BOOM: You just hit your nail on it's head. THAT is deep.

Again, sometimes when we look for love and acceptance in relationships, we only use our eyes. We see someone who we are physically/sexually attracted to. Why are they not into us? Why does every potential encounter with that person cause us to feel anxiety or doom?

Social media, and society in general, there is a loneliness epidemic. You are not alone, many people feel the way you do. Unfortunately, some of those people become a bit hostile, wanting to blame others, instead of looking within. Although you are not autistic, many autistic people also struggle, because they cannot seem to read others emotions. People who are not autistic, they tend to perceive much as self criticism.

One thing that the hobby has taught me, that I was unaware of before, is that accepting intimacy requests from a stranger, including a stranger or even a known person, who I am not sexually attracted to perhaps, is that I now have a much more positive view of men than I did before. I was forced to look beyond what was in front of me, in order to help make the guy who paid to be alone with me, feel as if I were attracted to him. This hardens many women, but in my case, it softened my heart instead. That is why I found myself in a relationship, when I wasn't looking for one. I forgot about caring what he thought about me, and thru his efforts to see me more often, I started to get interested in him, and who he was, instead of concerning myself about what he thought of me.

I don't know what to tell you, except that if I were you, I would try casually dating someone whom you were not initially sexually or physically attracted to. Just make sure you feel safe around them, and that they won't pose any danger to you. Look for someone who holds your eye contact, and try to listen to them speak, without saying anything about yourself.

I also highly recommend that you type all the personal search terms into a YouTube search bar, your insecurities and fears, and try taking a deep dive into video suggestions. There are so many great therapists on YouTube. The algorithm will eventually adjust and dig up helpful suggestions for videos. You are a very normal human being, feeling the thoughts that you feel about yourself and the other. There is nothing wrong with your thoughts and feelings. I think it's huge that you can articulate what and how you feel what you feel. That is so difficult for so many people to do that. You have made your search for inner knowing and connectiveness, that much easier.

Much of how we feel about ourselves, our inner dialogue, has to do with our earliest experiences. There is a term for this, it's called 'Shadow Work'. Going to what makes us experience and feel our darkest thoughts. Making friends with those experiences and thoughts, in order to learn and grow with the time we have here left on this earth. Sometimes love and acceptance comes from another human being who we do not see as remotely ideal. Sometimes physical attraction is not real, or meant to last. No relationship is ideal. All relationships contain some doubts or uncertainty. What matters is trust. In my opinion, love is trust. Trust needs to be nurtured and slowly grown. It is incredibly fragile also, as your post so eloquently states.

[cinderbella]

I just found this, it is a long read, but a great source of info:
https://www.becomingfullyhuman.ca/blog/shadow-work-101

[slowmover]

Not fear of rejection for me. I like variety. I don't go to the same spot for vacation every year, I don't order the same thing on the menu each time, etc. Another big plus for me is the pure transactional nature. It's win/win where I get what I want and you get what you want. I might never see you again and we don't interact outside of the physical act. Nice and clean, no drama or thinking.

[Pangolier]

Originally Posted by AdventurousMouse

Every client has a primary reason of why he uses escorts.

After thinking on it, I realized my primary reason is my crippling fear of rejection.

It's sad really. I have decent looks (and could probably get laid the traditional way if it weren't for my fear of rejection causing me to sideline myself)

Thanks to the fact I'm petrified to approach a woman, all my sex for the past 9 years has come from escorts (with the exception of a one night stand in 2021)

I recall a time when an escort, upon arrival, really gave me the 3rd degree about making sure I wasn't a cop. In retrospect, I think I know why she had strong suspicions I was a sting: She probably couldn't fathom why a man with my looks would buy sex.

Because in my case, there's a major gap in what I desire, and my desirability, when it comes to physical appearance. That's the main reason in my case. Also, compared to the '90s , dating dynamics have shift almost exclusively into how you can take advantage of your partner, and not whether the two of you really like each other.


Now, if you had asked the same question back when I was 17 years old, I would have given you an entirely different answer. I didn't have much experience with women when I was a young kid.

[Wile E Coyote]

Rejection is part of life.........anyone in the sales industry?

I do not have trouble at all getting dates in the RW, but for me, when it comes to the hobby, one thing is clear. I see providers to get what I desire (and it is not just to ring a bell) without the drama of a relationship outside the bedroom.

Due to the coddling of providers and the shit service many give today, the game has reversed course for me. I date ladies and before it is BCD time with them, all will ask my what I like, not only BCD but out of the bedroom as I do the same. One thing I do make very clear is that I am not settling down and exclusively seeing anyone. In the hobby world, when you let a provider know what you desire in a session you pay for, you are considered hard to please, get talked/lied about and outted on provider only forums and face backlash from provider and WKs for not wanting to just go with the flow.

What I am thankful for is having the right mix. And the providers I see regularly are very good at stroking my ego!

[okraslayer]

Personally I do both. I date " normally" either by meeting women out in public or via an app. If I get lucky with them great, if not I call up an escort or will call one up to fulfill some kink my partner may not be into.

To each their own. I've met women that date as a provider, because when it eventually ends they don't feel their time is waisted, their love language is gifts or they just assume if you put $$ down you aren't going to ghost her.


If this is your form of therapy then rock on dude. Personally for me I feel I am within my tribe in this forum community lol. I was the " nice guy" in junior high & even in college. Lots of girl " buddies" not realy anything that went beyond that. I sought out professional help via a therapist and was able to make some changes that I think have lead to a more holistic experience in terms of dating & expectations.

So yeah thats my reasoning when doing this sort of thing. I don't cheat if the girl I'm into is open to this great & if not and not open to my love languages/ kinks then she isn't the girl for me.

[AdventurousMouse]

Originally Posted by cinderbella

BOOM: You just hit your nail on it's head. THAT is deep.

Again, sometimes when we look for love and acceptance in relationships, we only use our eyes. We see someone who we are physically/sexually attracted to. Why are they not into us? Why does every potential encounter with that person cause us to feel anxiety or doom?

Social media, and society in general, there is a loneliness epidemic. You are not alone, many people feel the way you do. Unfortunately, some of those people become a bit hostile, wanting to blame others, instead of looking within. Although you are not autistic, many autistic people also struggle, because they cannot seem to read others emotions. People who are not autistic, they tend to perceive much as self criticism.

One thing that the hobby has taught me, that I was unaware of before, is that accepting intimacy requests from a stranger, including a stranger or even a known person, who I am not sexually attracted to perhaps, is that I now have a much more positive view of men than I did before. I was forced to look beyond what was in front of me, in order to help make the guy who paid to be alone with me, feel as if I were attracted to him. This hardens many women, but in my case, it softened my heart instead. That is why I found myself in a relationship, when I wasn't looking for one. I forgot about caring what he thought about me, and thru his efforts to see me more often, I started to get interested in him, and who he was, instead of concerning myself about what he thought of me.

I don't know what to tell you, except that if I were you, I would try casually dating someone whom you were not initially sexually or physically attracted to. Just make sure you feel safe around them, and that they won't pose any danger to you. Look for someone who holds your eye contact, and try to listen to them speak, without saying anything about yourself.

I also highly recommend that you type all the personal search terms into a YouTube search bar, your insecurities and fears, and try taking a deep dive into video suggestions. There are so many great therapists on YouTube. The algorithm will eventually adjust and dig up helpful suggestions for videos. You are a very normal human being, feeling the thoughts that you feel about yourself and the other. There is nothing wrong with your thoughts and feelings. I think it's huge that you can articulate what and how you feel what you feel. That is so difficult for so many people to do that. You have made your search for inner knowing and connectiveness, that much easier.

Much of how we feel about ourselves, our inner dialogue, has to do with our earliest experiences. There is a term for this, it's called 'Shadow Work'. Going to what makes us experience and feel our darkest thoughts. Making friends with those experiences and thoughts, in order to learn and grow with the time we have here left on this earth. Sometimes love and acceptance comes from another human being who we do not see as remotely ideal. Sometimes physical attraction is not real, or meant to last. No relationship is ideal. All relationships contain some doubts or uncertainty. What matters is trust. In my opinion, love is trust. Trust needs to be nurtured and slowly grown. It is incredibly fragile also, as your post so eloquently states.

I have a mild cause of autism (although since I've never mentioned my ASD on this forum before, I see why you weren't aware)

Unfortunately, even a mild case of autism makes me unfamiliar with social norms. Not only were none of the girls I expressed interest in when I was in middle school/high school into me; they even went one step further and said stuff like:

"Ew, you're the freak of the school"

"You're a creepy freak no girl would possibly want"

Additionally, one girl my freshman year of high school said it would hurt her reputation if we dated (And her friends would leave her MySpace comments saying stuff like "He's into you? That sucks")

Stuff from high school still impacts me to this day (I'm currently above 30 but below 35). A few months ago when a woman refused to give me her number, the words "you're a creepy freak no girl would possibly want" played on a continuous loop in my head for the next week (even though the woman I got turned down by a few months ago didn't call me a creepy freak)

Come college, I had better luck than high school (which isn't saying much). Even in college, however, the vast majority of my successes came from online. With the exception of one girl from class I dated for a week in college, every girl from college in which I expressed interest in-person turned me down.

Of the gals I've expressed interest in through the years, some have been stereotypical hotties. Others, not so much. I don't do well with either category.

There are a number of problems that come with autism.

One, we're prone to coming across as creepy without even trying...and without realizing whatever we're doing is creepy (Which impacts platonic male friendships too. I had a male classmate in college act super enthusiastic about being friends at first, only to end up hating me by the end of our first semester...for reasons I, to this day, am unaware of)

Two, the societal norm of the man making the move on the woman (after the woman gives clues that she'd like us to make a move) doesn't work well for us. We have a hard time reading clues. We're prone to imagining interest where none exists. We're also prone to the opposite scenario: Totally failing to pick up on an interested woman's clues.

Three, even if we initially secure a woman's interest, there's a high chance our social ineptitude will make her lose interest relatively quickly (I speak from experience on that one)

There have been a number of times where I thought a woman was into me, only to find out the interest was imaginary. As a result, I'm petrified to make a move on a woman anymore, no matter how convinced I am she's into me. I'm extremely self-conscious of my ASD. If it turns out I misread her clues, I'd then feel like an autistic idiot every time I run into her from that point on. So to avoid possibly ending up in that scenario, I simply refrain from making a move in the first place.

I guarantee I've missed many opportunities through the years because of my crippling phobia of finding out the perceived interest was imaginary.

[AdventurousMouse]

Originally Posted by cinderbella

I just found this, it is a long read, but a great source of info:
https://www.becomingfullyhuman.ca/blog/shadow-work-101

I don't have time to read the whole thing (at least not right now). Still, I am glad you shared.

After reading the intro, it said our shadow includes the parts of us we're ashamed of/don't accept.

That sums my ASD up to a tee. As mentioned on my last post, the single biggest thing holding me back is my fear of admitting to an uninterested woman that I thought she was into me (because I'd then blame the misreading on my ASD)

[AdventurousMouse]

Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote

Rejection is part of life.........anyone in the sales industry?

I do not have trouble at all getting dates in the RW, but for me, when it comes to the hobby, one thing is clear. I see providers to get what I desire (and it is not just to ring a bell) without the drama of a relationship outside the bedroom.

Due to the coddling of providers and the shit service many give today, the game has reversed course for me. I date ladies and before it is BCD time with them, all will ask my what I like, not only BCD but out of the bedroom as I do the same. One thing I do make very clear is that I am not settling down and exclusively seeing anyone. In the hobby world, when you let a provider know what you desire in a session you pay for, you are considered hard to please, get talked/lied about and outted on provider only forums and face backlash from provider and WKs for not wanting to just go with the flow.

What I am thankful for is having the right mix. And the providers I see regularly are very good at stroking my ego!

I've worked in sales before.

I've never liked the analogy where sales rejections get compared to romantic/sex rejections.

If you get rejected in sales, it means the customer doesn't like your product. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. Hell, in most sales jobs, you don't even want to be there, nor are you passionate about the product. You're only there because it's your job. As a result, it's easy to brush off any sales rejections.

Romantic/sex rejection is much more personal. It means the other party thinks there's something wrong with you. And as I explained, in my case specifically, romantic/sex rejection from a woman I seriously thought was into me ends up making me feel like shit about my ASD (for causing me to imagine interest where none exists)

To address the rest of your post, it's true some providers are better than others. I've been with a provider who charged outrageous prices for add-ons. Using her business model, she gets more money in the short-term. Yet long-term, her business ends up struggling (because clients are less likely to hire her again). I know for a fact she's struggling, as I've seen her post stuff online complaining about her business taking a downturn.

On the other hand, the providers I've been with the most don't charge at all for add-ons. Yeah, they end up missing out on some extra money in the short-term. But in the long run, they end up coming out ahead (as they get steady business from clients)

[AdventurousMouse]

Originally Posted by okraslayer

Personally I do both. I date " normally" either by meeting women out in public or via an app. If I get lucky with them great, if not I call up an escort or will call one up to fulfill some kink my partner may not be into.

To each their own. I've met women that date as a provider, because when it eventually ends they don't feel their time is waisted, their love language is gifts or they just assume if you put $$ down you aren't going to ghost her.


If this is your form of therapy then rock on dude. Personally for me I feel I am within my tribe in this forum community lol. I was the " nice guy" in junior high & even in college. Lots of girl " buddies" not realy anything that went beyond that. I sought out professional help via a therapist and was able to make some changes that I think have lead to a more holistic experience in terms of dating & expectations.

So yeah thats my reasoning when doing this sort of thing. I don't cheat if the girl I'm into is open to this great & if not and not open to my love languages/ kinks then she isn't the girl for me.

I initially started getting with escorts to numb the pain of striking out with a non-transactional woman.

In other words, I started out with your approach (use escorts to supplement, not replace, real world action)

Then I grew accustomed to how easy it is to simply hire an escort. I largely lost the will to even bother with pursuing a real world woman. I'm trying to crawl out of that rut right now. My goal is to end up in your position (the position I initially intended to be in) where escorts are a supplement; not a replacement.

[okraslayer]

If you can find yourself a gal that's also into this. Like a bi girl or one that is just ok with being platonic while you get your kicks off this way it's really great situation for you both.

Once you put yourself out there and are clear about what you want. It can be a really healthy setup. You'll have to get comfortable with being told no, fuck no , other things lol .. but once you are you can really weed out the ones you don't need in your life. I've actually dated some women that have either escorted or hired a girl themselves to fulfill something and we lasted a long while.

[Wile E Coyote]

Originally Posted by AdventurousMouse

I'm not necessarily saying every woman is a gold digger. And I certainly don't think being an escort automatically makes one a gold digger. You charge for sex because it's your job (just like I get paid by my employer for the work I do) That is why you should be able to interview candidates for employment and that is frowned upon by providers (another topic).

I'm not looking to rehabilitate the escort into wanting to be with me non-transactionally. When I say the only reason she's continued getting with me all these years is because I pay her, what I mean is it doesn't matter if I do/say the "wrong" thing; she'll still want to be with me because her only requirement is that I pay her (she ultimately doesn't give a damn about whether I'm her ideal type)

On the other hand, a woman I'm with non-transactionally will lose interest in me if I say/do even one "wrong" thing.

Past experience most certainly explains a lot. The fact no girls I expressed interest in when I was in middle school/high school were into me set me down a long path of failure.

I started seeing and paying providers for the very reason of the subject of this thread because, once you pass their screening and they set an appointment with you, then you are good to go for a good time followed by a happy ending as the provider is ecstatic you picked her to pay and go see as opposed of the thousands of other providers you could have chosen.

Nowadays, it is rare to get that anymore. For the most part, it is mostly drama on and off the boards from the provider you contacted for a session and her provider buddies whom you have not contacted for a session that follow your posts just to insult you, and many providers set with you because they think they are doing you a favor by taking your money. Most important of all, even though you reached that happy ending where your rang your bell, the journey getting there when the session starts is generally one where she goes through the motions to make sure the list of activities gets marked off for her what better be a glowing review you give her. And then during full service, she is an emotionally and mentally checked out mannequin while you get yours (in, on, off and out).

As I said previously in this thread, I have the right mix with providers I see regularly and RW dates. It took me close to getting 300 OKs on p411 before I found them tho.

[KCFalcon77]

Wow, sorry you had to wander in the wilderness so long to find your sweet spot Coyote. I never went through that, nor am I having that issue today. Maybe I've just been lucky, or been better at research and selection. I'm also selective about which sites I use to choose from. I stay away from STG and LC type sites because I've seen so much of the drama and issues you mentioned in reviews. I've had VERY few "dates" where I would't gladly see the lady again, and then its more from just really not connecting as anything. The only drama, I've really run into is a couple of ladies who I became really close to and got to know a lot about their real lives. We sometimes forget these ladies are real people also, with real challenges in their lives. The good ones do a good job of keeping that out of the encounters, but sometimes you find out more as you get to really know someone. Glad you found some level of what your looking for.

[Wile E Coyote]

You are right, KC, providers are real people who have real lives. We all have personal issues we have to deal with. However, just like you have a job you get paid for (and if it has anything to do with customer service, you know what I am talking about), you are seeing and paying providers to make you forget the problems of the RW one hour at a time and their job is to fulfill that desire by putting aside hers. Afterwards, you can both go put on that RW drama coat as you part ways. If you let personal issues effect your job performance, you will probably get fired. And if your issues are SO bad they will affect your performance no matter what you do to negate them for the time period, do not go into work and for providers, do not set an appointment if you cannot give 100% to please your client.

The ability to change hats when you go to work and clock in makes you the superstar you are while the inability to do so does the opposite. In most of the provider cases, the coddling they receive for piss poor service is why they have the shit attitudes of doing you a favor by seeing you and relieving you of your money that they do.

[DFW_Ladies_Man]

I'm going to try not to make this response as long as I thinks its going to be. I utilize escorts because I like have access to a large variety of women and I get to satisfy my sexual desires. I actively date and use the hobby to fill in the gaps. The dating world is not the same as it was when I was younger. Hook up culture seems to be dead. I consider myself attractive and a good catch and in my younger days it was nothing for me to go out to a bar and come home with a lady.

Dating now (specifically online dating) the majority of the ladies I match with don't even really want to meet or just don't have time to. Between work, travel, kids, the moment I have put pressure on them to meet, excuses come up...they cancel...and eventully give me some stupid speech about how they are just gonna focus on themselves.

The ones I have met in my age group have such high and unrealistic expectations on what they need out of a relationship that it kills any chance of it going anywhere. They want to change you into some shit they see on TV or some shit they had in the past.

I don't deal with any of that shit with escorts. I call, they come over, we do our thing and I leave. We might have some stimulating conversations but there is zero pressure from each other.

Don't get me wrong I would love to have a fulfilling relationship with a lady I know I can depend on. The ladies I see in the hobby aren't gonna take care of me when I get sick and old but fear of rejection isn't why I hobby.