For Esteemed Posters on the Left - Evidence that Republicans Were Better for the Middle Class and the Poor than Democrats

[oeb11]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiny
Yes, BLM is misguided. Which of the following do you believe should concern us most? Which should we be working the hardest to improve?

Number of black children under age 6 living in poverty, 2019: 3,054,000 (45.8%)

Probability a black boy born today can be expected to be sentenced to prison: 1 out of 3

Median black household income as a % of median white household income, 2019: 59.7%

Black high school graduation rate, 2017: 67% (compare to 93% for whites)

Life expectancy for blacks, 2018: 75 years (compare to 78.6 years for whites, 81.9 years for hispanics, and 86.3 years for Asians)

Number of blacks who died from heart disease in 2017: 77,260

Number of blacks who died from cancer in 2019: 73,030

Number of blacks shot to death by police in 2019: 235


Which should we worry about the most? Education. But black graduation rate isn't enough. Where I live, the predominantly black schools are also the worst schools, both in terms of graduation rate-- AND in quality of education. A great example is the worst high school in Cincinnati. All students in grade 11 take the ACT every year. The school went 4 years without a single person getting a "college ready" score (19). Yet-- there are plenty in the same school with a 3.0 or better GPA. They've dumbed down the curriculum just so they can shuffle the kids out-- completely unprepared for much of anything.


An educated populace is far less likely to become a criminal populace. Fixing education would make it easier to fix the poverty, fix the wage gap, and fix the incarceration rate. Studies also show that a black person with a college degree is also far more likely to stay in a nuclear family-- further helping the cycle.


Tiny/Grace - Thank You - thoughtful - it is not - to me- what One deals with first as symptoms of the problems - but underlying causes.
Our government welfare/busing and other policies have taken the nuclear black family and destroyed it - and removed the educational input from blacks for their children by moving them across town in a search for 'quota equality".
And think - ala Teachers unions - the more money wasted and the more marxism taught - - well - the better for harris marxist dictatorship it wil be - and they may be correct.,
70% of black children are born t unwed mothers - due to government policies LSM propaganda pressures against nuclear families.
the issues have taken decades for DPST policies to bear fruit - and the solutions are difficult - but the DPST's only wish to perpetuate blacks on their own Plantation in servitude in DPST shithole cities to ensure the captured Votes.

Culture and education - agreed - and preparing blacks for a work force, employment, and a stable family life will reduce the 5-15 times rate black men are incarcerated v white men.
The LSM glorifies the" hood and gang" cultures - what employer will hire a man who applies with butt hanging out from saggy pants, and inarticulate speaking ebonics , and no work ethic.
None. Regardless of skin coloration.
it would require a sea change in the culture and educational system - and the DPST's are entrenched in their Plantation system - and not about to change a damn thing while they hold the black vote hostage on their Plantation racial identity politics system.



am i to be criticized by the DPST's as a white man speaking of what i know nothing - Ok - Fine
Let's see if the Lily white DPST nomenklatura Masters have anything better - other than marxist teacher's unions, more busing, OBLm segregation, and glorification of the 'hood' culture which murders so many young black men.


DPST's and YR/multiple handles - go ahead and post the usual racist, marxist nonsense from your LSM propaganda - and bow to your Comrade XiNN.
Rather than comment on the issues - little 'a' - goes directly to Trump hate. So SAD!

[HoeHummer]

Anybody got any spare bullets for our good friend Ramboebsy.

I wonder which personality he’s going to favors us with today ...

The deep thinking intellectual?
The caring healer?
The raving lunatic?
The mass murder promoter?
The juvenile troll stalker?
Rexdutchman?

Yous are more and more interesting every day Ramboebsy!

keep up the good work. Yous are well on your way yo professional help... in China!

LOLLING!

(PS - you’re a white man???)

[oeb11]

Thanks for the usual nonsense - yr/multiple handles!

[rexdutchman]

Oh just leave it to the dim-wits just like 50 years in Baltimore , A change is needed

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Yes, BLM is misguided. Which of the following do you believe should concern us most? Which should we be working the hardest to improve?

Number of black children under age 6 living in poverty, 2019: 3,054,000 (45.8%)

Probability a black boy born today can be expected to be sentenced to prison: 1 out of 3

Median black household income as a % of median white household income, 2019: 59.7%

Black high school graduation rate, 2017: 67% (compare to 93% for whites)

Life expectancy for blacks, 2018: 75 years (compare to 78.6 years for whites, 81.9 years for hispanics, and 86.3 years for Asians)

Number of blacks who died from heart disease in 2017: 77,260

Number of blacks who died from cancer in 2019: 73,030

Number of blacks shot to death by police in 2019: 235

None of the above. The priority would be improving the education all Americans about poor communities. Unfortunately, we have no numbers for that. I'm talking social work. In High School.

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

Which should we worry about the most? Education. But black graduation rate isn't enough. Where I live, the predominantly black schools are also the worst schools, both in terms of graduation rate-- AND in quality of education. A great example is the worst high school in Cincinnati. All students in grade 11 take the ACT every year. The school went 4 years without a single person getting a "college ready" score (19). Yet-- there are plenty in the same school with a 3.0 or better GPA. They've dumbed down the curriculum just so they can shuffle the kids out-- completely unprepared for much of anything.


An educated populace is far less likely to become a criminal populace. Fixing education would make it easier to fix the poverty, fix the wage gap, and fix the incarceration rate. Studies also show that a black person with a college degree is also far more likely to stay in a nuclear family-- further helping the cycle.

[dilbert firestorm]

the education system that we currently have doesn't serve the black population all that well. K12 education are diploma mills without any meaning.


people talk about systemic racism, well, you're looking at the current public education system.


one has to ask... why are Dems so opposed to Charter schools? blacks seem do well in the charter system than the public school system.

[Tiny]

Lady and Gentlemen,

Excellent posts, thanks to Oeb, Eccieuser, Dilbert and especially Grace for her thoughtful comments backed up by numbers.

While you're unlikely to win an argument with me about taxes or energy, all of you can probably kick my ass to high heaven on education, because I don't know much. I may be resorting here to partisan claptrap because I don't know much about education, and hope you'll correct my misconceptions.

The long time mayor of Cincinnati is a Democrat, so you'd suspect the school board behind the high school Grace mentioned is also run by Democrats. I see from here that Cincinnati schools spend $19,591 per student, compared to a U.S. average of $12,383,

https://www.bestplaces.net/education...hio/cincinnati

Despite probably having no lack of adequate funding, Grace's high school is an abject failure. Oeb points out that teacher's unions in the public schools contribute to this failure. And Dilbert asks, "Why are Dems so opposed to Charter schools? Blacks seem to do [better] in the charter system than the public school system."

Damn good question Dilbert. Republican politicians are behind charter schools, school choice, and vouchers to enable students to attend private schools. Democratic politicians are not. They often appear to be in the pocket of the teachers unions, who are looking out first and foremost for the teachers. Parents have much less ability to improve the quality of their children's education when they're locked into the system favored by Democrats.

I never could figure out why the left wants to crucify Betsy DeVos, for favoring the Republican ideas I mentioned. Yeah, she's misguided on Covid, but otherwise she's tried her best to get the country to pursue policies that would benefit disadvantaged students.

Another thing, regardless of the quality of the school, a student's not going to do as well if he or she is raised in poverty. And the number of black children living below the poverty line has fallen from 3.47 million in 2016, the last year of the Obama administration, to 3.054 million in 2019. You can attribute part of that to what I mentioned in my OP, improvement in the condition of the poor and middle class brought on in part by the Ryan/Trump tax cuts on corporations and pass through businesses with lots of employees, and by deregulation.

[Grace Preston]

Cincinnati is literally chock full of free charter schools in addition to public schools. In addition-- in Cincinnati, you have choice in High School. No matter where you live in the city-- you apply to attend any of the public high schools in Cincinnati. 5 high schools have pre-set requirements that must be met.. (Honors program, Performing Arts, 2 Montessori based school, and a Paideia school) but the rest are all based on path choice (there are a couple of Technology schools, a mechanical school, a health sciences school, etc). When you're going into 7th grade, you put in for the lottery for your top choices. Where the failure happens the worst here.. is in the elementary schools. By the time these kids hit high school-- unless they qualify for one of the specialty schools-- its honestly damn near too late.



Here's something else interesting. Cincinnati has 2 distinctions-- they have the best public high school in Ohio.. and they have the worst public high school in Ohio.



And "long standing mayor" isn't a thing here... term limits-- Mayor Crowley is done next year.. and unless something oddball happens, the next mayor is also going to be a Dem (which, is disappointing to me.. he was also part of the "Gang of 5" scandal). But-- I do believe his most likely opponent is also a Dem. (This is why our Congressional districts are so gerrymandered-- otherwise, Republicans would never win here).



I'm for vouchers for non parochial schools. I'm against vouchers for religious schools (regardless of religion). I can't speak for everywhere.. but I know here in Cincinnati-- a good chunk of the private Catholic schools have scholarships and financial aid for low income families. However-- they do a poor job of getting the word out in the "less desirable" parts of town... I'm surprised by how many people aren't aware that the schools offer financial aid for lower income families.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

Obama handed over to Trump a much better economy than what Bush43 left for Obama. Obama bailed out "Wall Street" by giving 1000 "troubled assets" 625 plus Billion dollars.

The unemployment rate went from 10% down to 4.7% under Obama. Under Trump it has gone down from 4.7% to 3.7%.

With implementing the ACA law 20 million citizens got health insurance. Under Trump people are losing their health insurance.

The GDP growth rates for Obama and Trump and basically the same. Obama and Trump hit 3.0% GDP growth. The difference when Obama did it, it was considered "under performing". When Trump did it, it's considered setting a record.

From Waco Kid's favorite economist Kimberly Amadeo.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-gdp-by-year-3305543

Thanks for your substantive reply, and for getting this thread more-or-less back on topic.

My OP was about what I believe was the favorable effect of business tax cuts and deregulation on the poor and middle class. Like I said, I don't think Barrack Obama or George W. Bush was responsible for the stagnation in middle class wages between 2000 and 2016. I do think however that the Ryan/Trump tax cuts on business had a lot to do with the improving labor market and middle class wage growth in 2019.

The holes I'd try to poke in your arguments -- First, if you're looking just at GDP growth, the recession was a huge blessing for Obama, not a curse. He was starting from a very low base. If the economy had rebounded like it did from past recessions, GDP should have grown much faster than it did under Trump. But our recovery was anemic. Looking at the St. Louis Fed chart I posted earlier, at the end of Obama's first term, median household income was $56,912 (2019 dollars), compared to around $59,500 at the end of the recession. The middle class lost a lot of ground AFTER the recession, during Obama's first term.

As to the ACA, expanding health care to all Americans is a noble goal. The problem, Obama doubled down on a failed system. In 2012 health care spending was 17.2% of GDP. In 2020, it will be around 18% of GDP. Almost one of every five dollars spent in the USA is spent on health care! This is ridiculous. We can't afford it. As the baby boomers get older it will bankrupt us. Other countries do a much better job on health care than we do, but, being arrogant and divided, we refuse to look abroad for solutions. I'd prefer a system like Singapore, which relies more on the free market than we do while providing universal care.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

Cincinnati is literally chock full of free charter schools in addition to public schools....

Thanks for that. Like I said, I don't know this topic very well.
Looks like I made the situation out to be a lot simpler than it really is. It sounds like a good part of the solution is really concentrating on the elementary schools and providing kids with a good foundation.

[Grace Preston]

It isn't the same everywhere. Charter schools are much more popular in some areas than in others. But I know here in Cincinnati-- it hasn't helped a whole lot.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

It isn't the same everywhere. Charter schools are much more popular in some areas than in others. But I know here in Cincinnati-- it hasn't helped a whole lot.

OK, charter schools and parochial schools aren't a be all and end all. You've got some very good public and private schools in Cincinnati. We do all over America. So why can't we take "best practices" and implement them in schools that suck? I'm not trying to make a point and this isn't a rhetorical question. I'd honestly like to know.

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I'd prefer a system like Singapore, which relies more on the free market than we do while providing universal care.

I'm sorry if this isn't substantive enough for you but, for-profit hospitals providing universal care?

Do they have a conglomerate or a monopoly? Just asking. Too late to research now.

[Grace Preston]

Some stats for the number hungry--


The following is the worst high school in Cincinnati-- Usually I'd have more robust stats-- but due to COVID, they're only reporting the basics this year



4 Year graduation rate-- 66%
% of the class of 2013 that received a college degree within 6 years of graduation-- 2.7%
# of students that earned a remediation free ACT score (19 or better) or received an honors diploma-- 1 (this is an improvement-- the previous 4 years, that number was 0)


The following is the best public high school in Cincinnati--


4 year graduation rate-- 99%
% of the class of 2013 that earned a college degree within 6 years of graduation-- 64.2%
# of students with a remediation free score on the ACT or received an honors diploma-- 665




The differences are striking. The catch? The top high school in Cincinnati (and.. technically the best public high school in Ohio) has an entrance exam. Leaving elementary prepared to pass that exam is a ticket to a better life for a lot of students. In Cincinnati-- Jr. High doesn't exist. Its elementary K-6, then high school 7-12 across the board. (most schools segregate grade levels either by wing or by floor)