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Old 03-24-2020, 01:36 PM   #1
gnadfly
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Default We've Flatten The Curve. It's Time For Texas To Move On.

Two weeks since the Houston Rodeo shut down unexpectedly. In that time 5 men have died in TX. Out of a populace of 20+ Million. From today's web Houston Chronicle.

Quote:
There are confirmed cases of COVID-19 in 34 counties, according to state data. As of Saturday morning, there are 107 cases in the eight-county greater Houston region.

Five people have died:

A man in his 80s who lived at a Tomball nursing home cited 14 times last year for violating state standards.
A man in his 60s from Richardson (Dallas County), who was found dead at his home.
A 97-year old man from Bay City who once ran one of the only mortuaries in Matagorda County.
A 77-year-old man from Arlington who Tarrant County Public Health officials said was diagnosed after he died.
A 65-year-old man from Plano who had "an underlying medical condition" and was also diagnosed after his death, Collin County officials said.
People are losing their jobs and livelihoods. It's time to start opening up businesses, not shutting them down. It's also time to start using our medical care capacity. That's why we built it.

Mayor Turner and County Judge Hildago are going in the wrong direction and are making the cure more deadly than the disease.
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Old 03-24-2020, 02:15 PM   #2
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here where I'm at they imposed a stay at home order which pretty much closed businesses of social gathering
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Old 03-24-2020, 02:18 PM   #3
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And yet every Wal-mart is packed with thousands of people daily.
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Old 03-24-2020, 02:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by gnadfly View Post
Two weeks since the Houston Rodeo shut down unexpectedly. In that time 5 men have died in TX. Out of a populace of 20+ Million. From today's web Houston Chronicle.



People are losing their jobs and livelihoods. It's time to start opening up businesses, not shutting them down. It's also time to start using our medical care capacity. That's why we built it.

Mayor Turner and County Judge Hildago are going in the wrong direction and are making the cure more deadly than the disease.
Lol, The cases are going through the roof. The deaths will start shortly. The number of cases doubled worldwide in a week. We don't even know who has it because you cant get tested.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnadfly View Post
Two weeks since the Houston Rodeo shut down unexpectedly. In that time 5 men have died in TX. Out of a populace of 20+ Million. From today's web Houston Chronicle.



People are losing their jobs and livelihoods. It's time to start opening up businesses, not shutting them down. It's also time to start using our medical care capacity. That's why we built it.

Mayor Turner and County Judge Hildago are going in the wrong direction and are making the cure more deadly than the disease.
I hardly think anyone inc me will listen to an irrelevant and insignificant horses ass like you bud...I mean really..

Who the hell are you....a f***ing nobody..

Move on sonny, you’re boring folks. Take your opinions and shove em up your ass.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:54 PM   #6
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Time is about to be up

Yal's lieutenant governor there said he is not with the stay-at-home order
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:02 PM   #7
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YEP - Dan Patrick has a point - and I agree - this "cure" is worse than the disease.

we don't do this over Influenza A - and this disease is not as fatal as Influenza A.

Develop treatments and eventually a vaccine. Keep America's economy Strong.

This self induced "cure" is just what the DPST's, Chinese, and Russians want.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:19 PM   #8
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YEP - Dan Patrick has a point - and I agree - this "cure" is worse than the disease.

we don't do this over Influenza A - and this disease is not as fatal as Influenza A.

Develop treatments and eventually a vaccine. Keep America's economy Strong.

This self induced "cure" is just what the DPST's, Chinese, and Russians want.
The math is still being done because we don’t have all the data yet but the regular flu is .1 percent and the corona virus is maybe 3 percent ! 30 times worse lol. If ( and it’s a big if ) the regular flu kills 60,000 people this could kill 1.8 Million ! That’s a shit ton of people to have in the hospitals and try to bury in a few months time.

This is a time bomb and we just need to wait for the explosion.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:24 PM   #9
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Wrong - those data do not take into count the undiagnosed people that are asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic.
Please read scholarly article by John Ioaniddis - from Stanford.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/...reliable-data/
A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data


By John P.A. Ioannidis
March 17, 2020
The current coronavirus disease, Covid-19, has been called a once-in-a-century pandemic. But it may also be a once-in-a-century evidence fiasco.
At a time when everyone needs better information, from disease modelers and governments to people quarantined or just social distancing, we lack reliable evidence on how many people have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 or who continue to become infected. Better information is needed to guide decisions and actions of monumental significance and to monitor their impact.
Draconian countermeasures have been adopted in many countries. If the pandemic dissipates — either on its own or because of these measures — short-term extreme social distancing and lockdowns may be bearable. How long, though, should measures like these be continued if the pandemic churns across the globe unabated? How can policymakers tell if they are doing more good than harm?
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Vaccines or affordable treatments take many months (or even years) to develop and test properly. Given such timelines, the consequences of long-term lockdowns are entirely unknown.
Related:
We know enough now to act decisively against Covid-19. Social distancing is a good place to start


The data collected so far on how many people are infected and how the epidemic is evolving are utterly unreliable. Given the limited testing to date, some deaths and probably the vast majority of infections due to SARS-CoV-2 are being missed. We don’t know if we are failing to capture infections by a factor of three or 300. Three months after the outbreak emerged, most countries, including the U.S., lack the ability to test a large number of people and no countries have reliable data on the prevalence of the virus in a representative random sample of the general population.
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This evidence fiasco creates tremendous uncertainty about the risk of dying from Covid-19. Reported case fatality rates, like the official 3.4% rate from the World Health Organization, cause horror — and are meaningless. Patients who have been tested for SARS-CoV-2 are disproportionately those with severe symptoms and bad outcomes. As most health systems have limited testing capacity, selection bias may even worsen in the near future.
The one situation where an entire, closed population was tested was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and its quarantine passengers. The case fatality rate there was 1.0%, but this was a largely elderly population, in which the death rate from Covid-19 is much higher.
Projecting the Diamond Princess mortality rate onto the age structure of the U.S. population, the death rate among people infected with Covid-19 would be 0.125%. But since this estimate is based on extremely thin data — there were just seven deaths among the 700 infected passengers and crew — the real death rate could stretch from five times lower (0.025%) to five times higher (0.625%). It is also possible that some of the passengers who were infected might die later, and that tourists may have different frequencies of chronic diseases — a risk factor for worse outcomes with SARS-CoV-2 infection — than the general population. Adding these extra sources of uncertainty, reasonable estimates for the case fatality ratio in the general U.S. population vary from 0.05% to 1%.


That huge range markedly affects how severe the pandemic is and what should be done. A population-wide case fatality rate of 0.05% is lower than seasonal influenza. If that is the true rate, locking down the world with potentially tremendous social and financial consequences may be totally irrational. It’s like an elephant being attacked by a house cat. Frustrated and trying to avoid the cat, the elephant accidentally jumps off a cliff and dies.
Could the Covid-19 case fatality rate be that low? No, some say, pointing to the high rate in elderly people. However, even some so-called mild or common-cold-type coronaviruses that have been known for decades can have case fatality rates as high as 8% when they infect elderly people in nursing homes. In fact, such “mild” coronaviruses infect tens of millions of people every year, and account for 3% to 11% of those hospitalized in the U.S. with lower respiratory infections each winter.
These “mild” coronaviruses may be implicated in several thousands of deaths every year worldwide, though the vast majority of them are not documented with precise testing. Instead, they are lost as noise among 60 million deaths from various causes every year.
Although successful surveillance systems have long existed for influenza, the disease is confirmed by a laboratory in a tiny minority of cases. In the U.S., for example, so far this season 1,073,976 specimens have been tested and 222,552 (20.7%) have tested positive for influenza. In the same period, the estimated number of influenza-like illnesses is between 36,000,000 and 51,000,000, with an estimated 22,000 to 55,000 flu deaths.
Note the uncertainty about influenza-like illness deaths: a 2.5-fold range, corresponding to tens of thousands of deaths. Every year, some of these deaths are due to influenza and some to other viruses, like common-cold coronaviruses.
In an autopsy series that tested for respiratory viruses in specimens from 57 elderly persons who died during the 2016 to 2017 influenza season, influenza viruses were detected in 18% of the specimens, while any kind of respiratory virus was found in 47%. In some people who die from viral respiratory pathogens, more than one virus is found upon autopsy and bacteria are often superimposed. A positive test for coronavirus does not mean necessarily that this virus is always primarily responsible for a patient’s demise.

If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths. This sounds like a huge number, but it is buried within the noise of the estimate of deaths from “influenza-like illness.” If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to “influenza-like illness” would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average. The media coverage would have been less than for an NBA game between the two most indifferent teams.
Some worry that the 68 deaths from Covid-19 in the U.S. as of March 16 will increase exponentially to 680, 6,800, 68,000, 680,000 … along with similar catastrophic patterns around the globe. Is that a realistic scenario, or bad science fiction? How can we tell at what point such a curve might stop?
The most valuable piece of information for answering those questions would be to know the current prevalence of the infection in a random sample of a population and to repeat this exercise at regular time intervals to estimate the incidence of new infections. Sadly, that’s information we don’t have.
In the absence of data, prepare-for-the-worst reasoning leads to extreme measures of social distancing and lockdowns. Unfortunately, we do not know if these measures work. School closures, for example, may reduce transmission rates. But they may also backfire if children socialize anyhow, if school closure leads children to spend more time with susceptible elderly family members, if children at home disrupt their parents ability to work, and more. School closures may also diminish the chances of developing herd immunity in an age group that is spared serious disease.
This has been the perspective behind the different stance of the United Kingdom keeping schools open, at least until as I write this. In the absence of data on the real course of the epidemic, we don’t know whether this perspective was brilliant or catastrophic.
Flattening the curve to avoid overwhelming the health system is conceptually sound — in theory. A visual that has become viral in media and social media shows how flattening the curve reduces the volume of the epidemic that is above the threshold of what the health system can handle at any moment.
Related:
The novel coronavirus is a serious threat. We need to prepare, not overreact


Yet if the health system does become overwhelmed, the majority of the extra deaths may not be due to coronavirus but to other common diseases and conditions such as heart attacks, strokes, trauma, bleeding, and the like that are not adequately treated. If the level of the epidemic does overwhelm the health system and extreme measures have only modest effectiveness, then flattening the curve may make things worse: Instead of being overwhelmed during a short, acute phase, the health system will remain overwhelmed for a more protracted period. That’s another reason we need data about the exact level of the epidemic activity.
One of the bottom lines is that we don’t know how long social distancing measures and lockdowns can be maintained without major consequences to the economy, society, and mental health. Unpredictable evolutions may ensue, including financial crisis, unrest, civil strife, war, and a meltdown of the social fabric. At a minimum, we need unbiased prevalence and incidence data for the evolving infectious load to guide decision-making.
In the most pessimistic scenario, which I do not espouse, if the new coronavirus infects 60% of the global population and 1% of the infected people die, that will translate into more than 40 million deaths globally, matching the 1918 influenza pandemic.
The vast majority of this hecatomb would be people with limited life expectancies. That’s in contrast to 1918, when many young people died.
One can only hope that, much like in 1918, life will continue. Conversely, with lockdowns of months, if not years, life largely stops, short-term and long-term consequences are entirely unknown, and billions, not just millions, of lives may be eventually at stake.
If we decide to jump off the cliff, we need some data to inform us about the rationale of such an action and the chances of landing somewhere safe.
John P.A. Ioannidis is professor of medicine and professor of epidemiology and population health, as well as professor by courtesy of biomedical data science at Stanford University School of Medicine, professor by courtesy of statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS) at Stanford University.
About the Author

John P.A. Ioannidis

jioannid@stanford.edu
@METRICStanford




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Old 03-24-2020, 04:26 PM   #10
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The math is still being done because we don’t have all the data yet but the regular flu is .1 percent and the corona virus is maybe 3 percent ! 30 times worse lol. If ( and it’s a big if ) the regular flu kills 60,000 people this could kill 1.8 Million ! That’s a shit ton of people to have in the hospitals and try to bury in a few months time.

This is a time bomb and we just need to wait for the explosion.
The mortality rate is not going to be anywhere near 3%, and will likely end up under 0.5%, less for anyone under 60. Only when there’s a simple antibody test will we know for sure. We’re not testing anyone asymptotic, which skews the numbers bigly. There could be, and probably are, millions of people walking around right now who would test positive.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:29 PM   #11
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J - thank you , good Sir!!!
An excellent synopsis of my longer reprint of Ioaniddis.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:32 PM   #12
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I hardly think anyone inc me will listen to an irrelevant and insignificant horses ass like you bud...I mean really..

Who the hell are you....a f***ing nobody..

Move on sonny, you’re boring folks. Take your opinions and shove em up your ass.
Well spoken Kriss, well spoken.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:39 PM   #13
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About time to put LD on Ignore.

The Forum is much better without the name-calling noncontributors who have only that and scatology.
Typical Fascist DPST;s - illegal aliens mater more than American taxpaying citizens.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:45 PM   #14
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The math is still being done because we don’t have all the data yet but the regular flu is .1 percent and the corona virus is maybe 3 percent ! 30 times worse lol. If ( and it’s a big if ) the regular flu kills 60,000 people this could kill 1.8 Million ! That’s a shit ton of people to have in the hospitals and try to bury in a few months time.

This is a time bomb and we just need to wait for the explosion.
Calm down.

The math won't be finalized until this is over.

There's no evidence to suggest, in the US, the number of deaths you are talking about due to CV. So far in TX, only five people have died out of a population of 25+MM.

Breathe. We can get over this without ruining the economy.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:49 PM   #15
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It's all good in my hood. Butt dipshit, since we STILL have no testing...we don't have a curve
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