We are Lost in Thought

[Bebe Le Strange]

I love reading Sam Harris's writings. I found this article he wrote to be very interesting and thought provoking. I thought I would share here for the intellectual reader's interest!

We are Lost in Thought
I invite you to pay attention to anything — the sight of this text, the sensation of breathing, the feeling of your body resting against your chair — for a mere sixty seconds without getting distracted by discursive thought. It sounds simple enough: Just pay attention. The truth, however, is that you will find the task impossible. If the lives of your children depended on it, you could not focus on anything — even the feeling of a knife at your throat — for more than a few seconds, before your awareness would be submerged again by the flow of thought. This forced plunge into unreality is a problem. In fact, it is the problem from which every other problem in human life appears to be made.
I am by no means denying the importance of thinking. Linguistic thought is indispensable to us. It is the basis for planning, explicit learning, moral reasoning, and many other capacities that make us human. Thinking is the substance of every social relationship and cultural institution we have. It is also the foundation of science. But our habitual identification with the flow of thought — that is, our failure to recognize thoughts as thoughts, as transient appearances in consciousness — is a primary source of human suffering and confusion.
Our relationship to our own thinking is strange to the point of paradox, in fact. When we see a person walking down the street talking to himself, we generally assume that he is mentally ill. But we all talk to ourselves continuously — we just have the good sense to keep our mouths shut. Our lives in the present can scarcely be glimpsed through the veil of our discursivity: We tell ourselves what just happened, what almost happened, what should have happened, and what might yet happen. We ceaselessly reiterate our hopes and fears about the future. Rather than simply exist as ourselves, we seem to presume a relationship with ourselves. It's as though we are having a conversation with an imaginary friend possessed of infinite patience. Who are we talking to?
While most of us go through life feeling that we are the thinker of our thoughts and the experiencer of our experience, from the perspective of science we know that this is a distorted view. There is no discrete self or ego lurking like a minotaur in the labyrinth of the brain. There is no region of cortex or pathway of neural processing that occupies a privileged position with respect to our personhood. There is no unchanging "center of narrative gravity" (to use Daniel Dennett's phrase). In subjective terms, however, there seems to be one — to most of us, most of the time.
Our contemplative traditions (Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc.) also suggest, to varying degrees and with greater or lesser precision, that we live in the grip of a cognitive illusion. But the alternative to our captivity is almost always viewed through the lens of religious dogma. A Christian will recite the Lord's Prayer continuously over a weekend, experience a profound sense of clarity and peace, and judge this mental state to be fully corroborative of the doctrine of Christianity; A Hindu will spend an evening singing devotional songs to Krishna, feel suddenly free of his conventional sense of self, and conclude that his chosen deity has showered him with grace; a Sufi will spend hours whirling in circles, pierce the veil of thought for a time, and believe that he has established a direct connection to Allah.
The universality of these phenomena refutes the sectarian claims of any one religion. And, given that contemplatives generally present their experiences of self-transcendence as inseparable from their associated theology, mythology, and metaphysics, it is no surprise that scientists and nonbelievers tend to view their reports as the product of disordered minds, or as exaggerated accounts of far more common mental states — like scientific awe, aesthetic enjoyment, artistic inspiration, etc.
Our religions are clearly false, even if certain classically religious experiences are worth having. If we want to actually understand the mind, and overcome some of the most dangerous and enduring sources of conflict in our world, we must begin thinking about the full spectrum of human experience in the context of science.
But we must first realize that we are lost in thought.


SAM HARRIS
Neuroscientist; Chairman, Project Reason; Author, The Moral Landscape

[ClairJordan]

Very interesting. And I like your quote.
Meditation, yoga (which I consider a moving meditation) even exercise go a long way to quiet the inner chatter.
Thanks for sharing.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by ClairJordan

) even exercise goes a long way to quiet the inner chatter.

Damn Clair, you getting me horny baby!

[Tiffani Jameson]

Funny you mention this. I've been re-reading Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth and he talks about the same thing. Just being present in the moment, constantly moving towards the next helps us accomplish our goals faster than thinking about it, that constant chatter about what move we're going to make, or dwelling on what move we should have made.

He does, however, believe in an egoic 'self' which I tend to agree with. It's the 'back-story' of our lives, or the excuses we give ourselves. What he says is that we have the 'self' we identify with, like 'I am a certain race' or 'I have a disease' or 'I am that thing that makes me feel and think the way I do about my past, present, or future possibilities.' These things on most occasions, limit the power of now because we're either consumed with what happened in the past, or what we want to accomplish in the future.

I think of my 20 year old sister, who constantly tells me about her interactions with a co-worker that says little catty things to get on her nerves. The first statement she makes is "I have a bad temper, and she'd better watch what she says to me." She is already identifying with her bad temper, what Tolle would call her egoic mind. And instead of understanding that the lady is trying to get a reaction out of her, and not to respond in that egoic mind frame, she starts with the neck-whipping and name-calling. Because I don't see or feed that egoic mind, I don't label her as 'my sister with the bad attitude'. Because she is not her temper, and a very good person despite her temper. We can all think of that one person, even ourselves, that constantly dwells on the future, or the past, and it limits their actions RIGHT NOW, when they're supposed to be acting on what they want to happen.

I do believe that spirituality transcends all religions. These spiritual teachings help us to be better Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, or whatever our belief system. I'm definitely on this path, and I hope we can encourage others to discover the true essence of themselves.

Thanks for the cool topic!

[Bebe Le Strange]

Originally Posted by Tiffani Jameson

Funny you mention this. I've been re-reading Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth and he talks about the same thing. Just being present in the moment, constantly moving towards the next helps us accomplish our goals faster than thinking about it, that constant chatter about what move we're going to make, or dwelling on what move we should have made.

He does, however, believe in an egoic 'self' which I tend to agree with. It's the 'back-story' of our lives, or the excuses we give ourselves. What he says is that we have the 'self' we identify with, like 'I am a certain race' or 'I have a disease' or 'I am that thing that makes me feel and think the way I do about my past, present, or future possibilities.' These things on most occasions, limit the power of now because we're either consumed with what happened in the past, or what we want to accomplish in the future.

I think of my 20 year old sister, who constantly tells me about her interactions with a co-worker that says little catty things to get on her nerves. The first statement she makes is "I have a bad temper, and she'd better watch what she says to me." She is already identifying with her bad temper, what Tolle would call her egoic mind. And instead of understanding that the lady is trying to get a reaction out of her, and not to respond in that egoic mind frame, she starts with the neck-whipping and name-calling. Because I don't see or feed that egoic mind, I don't label her as 'my sister with the bad attitude'. Because she is not her temper, and a very good person despite her temper. We can all think of that one person, even ourselves, that constantly dwells on the future, or the past, and it limits their actions RIGHT NOW, when they're supposed to be acting on what they want to happen.

I do believe that spirituality transcends all religions. These spiritual teachings help us to be better Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, or whatever our belief system. I'm definitely on this path, and I hope we can encourage others to discover the true essence of themselves.

Thanks for the cool topic!

Yes, I also relate to the constant chatter. I think many people have repetitive thoughts and tend to constantly replay things from the past as well. Generally this constant flow of repetitive thoughts in the past tend to hold people back from what is going on in the now, and focusing on the now only.

I will have to read that book your talking about! Glad everyone liked the article!

Happy to contribute.

[Guest053011]

I agree that constant chatter is a problem for a good many people, but I wouldn't say that we can't ever focus. Lord knows if you lead a successful career, you'd better be able to focus. Productivity and development would plummet.

I find that men who have difficulty achieving orgasm are often ones that cannot achieve silence in the mind, or are so focused on the end result and unable to enjoy the waves of sensation, that climax continually evades them. I have found that both bondage and meditation helps - both help them let go. However, teaching someone to meditate can be an agonizing process, but when someone is able to break through the wall of thought and suddenly find themselves in silence - it's a beautiful thing.

As Clair pointed out Meditation and Yoga do ultimately work to achieve the silence of the mind he speaks of. I would also argue that prayer in it's sincere form is often a form of meditation - though there may be chants or words running through your mind, what they do is liberate you from thought by creating a drone that you know so well you *don't have to think to say it*. It's like breathing.

Though I thoroughly enjoy this piece and the writing in general, I find his end conclusion has an air of arrogant superiority that is common amongst psychologist, the intelligentsia and even the priesthood - I have the answer, all else is false. To call all religion false is, in my own personal opinion, is a great folly. Religion is ultimately philosophy that was meant to accessible to the masses to improve their state of living.

Einstein once said that the early thinkers did more for the dignity of human life then all of the Enlightenment Thinkers combined.

It is not difficult to find religious scientists. It is especially interesting to hear physicists speak of the elegance of the universe, and again not rare to hear them refer to God.

Religions ultimately focus on ethics, morality and personal fulfillment when they aren't being manipulated. Science has a focus on the physical world, one that can be measured. There are a great many things worth thought, study and devotion that cannot be measured. Science too has it's list of abuses and atrocities throughout history. Neuroscience in particular when applied to psychiatry - there is a growing movement of patients across Europe and spreading into North America of those who suffer mental illness feeling that psychiatry treats them with a disturbing lack of empathy, an almost consistent cold detachment, and more are calling for recovered patients to enter the field as their experience will make them much better at treating others who suffer.

I am wary of anyone that thinks they have all the answers, and so easily throws aside thousands of years of human experience and knowledge.

[Bebe Le Strange]

Well I disagree; religion does not improve the state of ones living, and this too is just my opinion take it as a grain of salt if you disagree. I think religions have done more harm to the masses, and created more division between people instead of focusing on the commonalities of people. To say it improves the state of living is false. All you have to do is look at history. Religion is more of a dumbing down of the masses, a way of controlling the masses. Politicians use religion to sway people to vote or them. In my opinion it is mass delusion that is very dangerous and history proves that. I believe that one can find happiness and fulfillment within themselves and find the power that is within without believing in a deity floating in the sky looking down at us.

.
What Einstein said and how it was interpreted 2 different things:
Quote: Far from indicating his belief in God, or his respect for unjustified belief, Einstein was speaking about the primitive urge to understand the universe, along with the “faith” that such understanding is possible.”


Religions focus on ethics, and morality? Recheck the writings of some of the most famous religious books; they literally are littered with the most unmoral, unconscionable things. History has shown what religions do to people.

It is not science that caused psychiatrists to lack empathy for their patients, or stigmatize the mentally ill. Science did not cause that people did!

Well Sam Harris clearly states he does not have all the answers, but I am also wary of people who seem to have all the answers from a religious book written by men who believe in something that cannot be proven to exist.

[Guest053011]

What fun is there in a discussion when people only agree

Ultimately what Science will never replace is philosophy, whether in the dialogue of the intelligentsia, or one that uses tales, myths and legends to share it's lessons. Science does not broach all streams and branches of reality, and will never satiate the human appetite for more then that which is measurable.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Bebe Le Strange

Well I disagree; religion does not improve the state of ones living, and this too is just my opinion take it as a grain of salt if you disagree. I think religions have done more harm to the masses, and created more division between people instead of focusing on the commonalities of people. To say it improves the state of living is false. All you have to do is look at history. Religion is more of a dumbing down of the masses, a way of controlling the masses. Politicians use religion to sway people to vote or them. In my opinion it is mass delusion that is very dangerous and history proves that. I believe that one can find happiness and fulfillment within themselves and find the power that is within without believing in a deity floating in the sky looking down at us.

.
What Einstein said and how it was interpreted 2 different things:
Quote: Far from indicating his belief in God, or his respect for unjustified belief, Einstein was speaking about the primitive urge to understand the universe, along with the “faith” that such understanding is possible.”


Religions focus on ethics, and morality? Recheck the writings of some of the most famous religious books; they literally are littered with the most unmoral, unconscionable things. History has shown what religions do to people.

It is not science that caused psychiatrists to lack empathy for their patients, or stigmatize the mentally ill. Science did not cause that people did!

Well Sam Harris clearly states he does not have all the answers, but I am also wary of people who seem to have all the answers from a religious book written by men who believe in something that cannot be proven to exist.

Religion has its place in one's life, just like Santa Clause. People refer to it on matters that science has yet to explain. In fact were you to give sick people the option of a priest or doctor 99% would be for Obamacare! Of course it you told them they only had i hour to live those numbers would be reversed.

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by WTF

Religion has its place in one's life, just like Santa Clause. People refer to it on matters that science has yet to explain.

LOL. It is man's arrogance that thinks that science provides explanations.

5,000 years from now they will laugh at our primitive beliefs of our knowledge of science...much like we laugh at the flat earth folks of centuries ago. And 5,000 years after that...the people of that time will be laughing at them.

While man mainpulates religion for his own purposes over the ages...most of the major religions fundamentals have perseviered much longer than scientifc "facts" as discovered by man.

[Guest053011]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

5,000 years from now they will laugh at our primitive beliefs of our knowledge of science...much like we laugh at the flat earth folks of centuries ago. And 5,000 years after that...the people of that time will be laughing at them.

While man mainpulates religion for his own purposes over the ages...most of the major religions fundamentals have perseviered much longer than scientifc "facts" as discovered by man.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

LOL. It is man's arrogance that thinks that science provides explanations.

5,000 years from now they will laugh at our primitive beliefs of our knowledge of science...much like we laugh at the flat earth folks of centuries ago. And 5,000 years after that...the people of that time will be laughing at them.

While man mainpulates religion for his own purposes over the ages...most of the major religions fundamentals have perseviered much longer than scientifc "facts" as discovered by man.

Well then RK, next time you are sick or break a leg just pray that God will fix it!

By golly I think you have solved the healthcare crisis, religious folks can no longer go to the ER, we will leave them in God's care.

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

You two can pray for each other in sickness! No sense flouting that Canadian Healthcare system around here anymore! Religion trumps Science. Finally a reversal on the Scopes Monkey trial!

[John Bull]

It seems that those who study many religions seem to believe that they all reach for what is called Nirvana in the East. Those who immerse themselves in one religion often, but not always, tend toward fanaticism. I wonder why the message of all is so difficult for the one?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by John Bull

It seems that those who study many religions seem to believe that they all reach for what is called Nirvana in the East. Those who immerse themselves in one religion often, but not always, tend toward fanaticism. I wonder why the message of all is so difficult for the one?

Hot Damn JB, you speaking in tongue's!

Explain just WTF riddle you ask'd to us mere mortals!

[John Bull]

I'll have you know, WTF, that my tongue is off limits to you.