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51MEANTXGUNS50 · 12-08-2010, 11:42 PM

After seeing a whole bunch of different threads and questions pertaining to spotting LE and how to avoid getting clipped, I thought I'd help everyone out with simple facts that should help both providers and their clients be able to detect the real deals from UC's.

#1. An undercover cop or informant working for cops can NEVER make inappropriate contact with you or it's entrapment. For instance, Girls, if you aren't sure of the guy, in a playful and flirty way, maybe grab on him, or grab his hands and place them on certain areas of your body. I know providers who also work as dancers do this often so I'm sure there's a way you can incorporate this tactic when seeing a man you aren't sure of. Guys, it's even easier for you. Suppose the provider in question has a nice rack, ask her if she's all natural, real or not, if she's for real she'll usually respond by asking if you to feel for yourself. If she's got a nice booty or nice legs I'm sure you can somehow work in a comment that would work. If she's for real, she'd have no problem letting you cop a feel.

#2. Constantly and specifically bringing up money = red flag. Hobbyist or provider. I remember back when I had no vehicle, to and from work I'd have to pass by a motel where not only was there alot of street walkers, but cops knew damn well that this place was a well known hang out for them. Girls were ALWAYS propositioning me, but they were doing so in this exact manner and for that I always felt uneasy in that area.

#3. If your really in doubt, ask for/offer services that technically don't count as sexual favors. Topless dancing, massage, nude modeling, UC's won't bother with any of these activities but the real deals know what they lead to. Worst case scenario you only get what you asked for, but then again that's a good case scenario because I don't know bout the rest of you fellas but I like me a good massage or lap dance so to me it's all good in my book.

Guess that's just about it. Hope this helps everyone. Be safe and if you have any questions feel free to speak on it ladies and gents !

guest102613-2 · 12-08-2010, 11:52 PM

#1......i don't agree with one bit. i seem to recall a few agency's in my area that got popped. how, they cops sent in informants and yes they were doing FULL appointments. the other was actual le going in, not doing full appintments, but they were def groping and had wandering hands!

51MEANTXGUNS50 · 12-09-2010, 12:22 AM

And you're positive that both LE and their informants actually made physical contact with the providers ? That was based on something I've been told by dancers directly. I mean maybe since were from different areas of the country the LE policies may vary but I remember that when I first started going to topless bars close to 5 years ago I ran into a girl who grabbed my hand and placed it on her breasts, I panicked simply because the bouncer was right there and didn't want to get in trouble, but that just made her ask me why I didn't want to touch her and if I was a cop. Of course I explained to her that I just didn't want to get in trouble because I assumed touching the girls is off limits but she said that pulling away like I did might actually make me look worse. Diff policies for diff LE depts perhaps ? This is a policy with most local PDs in my area by the way, maybe things are diff in yours is all I can think of.

Chica Chaser · 12-09-2010, 01:01 AM

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=20069

guest102613-2 · 12-09-2010, 02:25 AM

positive! it was all over the news lol

itsmejessicalee · 12-09-2010, 04:22 AM

I've heard of cops in IL and IN having sex with the girl and then busting them, or laying there nude with a hard-on. They aren't supposed to, but it's your word against theirs in court, and who is the judge more likely to believe? That's why it's best to screen, screen, screen so you don't end up in the same room as LE. They will find a way to bust you if they really want to.

Stud Daddy · 12-09-2010, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naughtynikki84

#1......i don't agree with one bit. i seem to recall a few agency's in my area that got popped. how, they cops sent in informants and yes they were doing FULL appointments. the other was actual le going in, not doing full appintments, but they were def groping and had wandering hands!

Unfortunately as Nikki & others have noted on other threads, there are LEs and snitches that will LIE!

Unless you've got one of those High-Tech Televised Stings going on its often your word vs the cop and we know that the courts tend to favor the cops period.

Your tips are valid but not a guarantee esp. in a he said she said situation. Best advice seems to be if it doesn't seem right or if you are having any doubts walk the heck away & shut your mouth.

Memory757 · 12-09-2010, 07:53 AM

#1 is false. I know of providers who got busted and they said officers got nude and was touching them inappropriately.

Guest121212 · 12-09-2010, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51MEANTXGUNS50

#1. An undercover cop or informant working for cops can NEVER make inappropriate contact with you or it's entrapment. For instance, Girls, if you aren't sure of the guy, in a playful and flirty way, maybe grab on him, or grab his hands and place them on certain areas of your body. I know providers who also work as dancers do this often so I'm sure there's a way you can incorporate this tactic when seeing a man you aren't sure of. Guys, it's even easier for you. Suppose the provider in question has a nice rack, ask her if she's all natural, real or not, if she's for real she'll usually respond by asking if you to feel for yourself. If she's got a nice booty or nice legs I'm sure you can somehow work in a comment that would work. If she's for real, she'd have no problem letting you cop a feel.

#2. Constantly and specifically bringing up money = red flag. Hobbyist or provider. I remember back when I had no vehicle, to and from work I'd have to pass by a motel where not only was there alot of street walkers, but cops knew damn well that this place was a well known hang out for them. Girls were ALWAYS propositioning me, but they were doing so in this exact manner and for that I always felt uneasy in that area.

#3. If your really in doubt, ask for/offer services that technically don't count as sexual favors. Topless dancing, massage, nude modeling, UC's won't bother with any of these activities but the real deals know what they lead to. Worst case scenario you only get what you asked for, but then again that's a good case scenario because I don't know bout the rest of you fellas but I like me a good massage or lap dance so to me it's all good in my book.

#1. Patently false.

Law Enforcement Officers (LEO or LEOs) and / or Confidential Informants or Cooperating Witnesses (CI/CW or CI) may have and have had sex to completion prior to arrest or citation. This occurs throughout the country. It has been widely reported in the media and subsequently discussed in length here on ECCIE and on other boards.

Different jurisdictions and Agencies have different policies on this matter and when this activity leaks to the press it is usually frowned upon by the public, however, it occurs ALL THE TIME. Do you believe that an undercover officer working a drug case can't do drugs? Well, they can, they are given immunity from prosecution for most all their "illegal acts" in developing their cover and building their case short of murder (and even then, depending on how "deep" the undercover operation is, there have been reports of Federal officers - think DEA, ICE, DHS - going so far as to commit murder to not blow their cover . . . not to mention what our country's intelligence gathering officers may do on foreign soil, but that is a whole other thread / discussion). Vice officers do drugs, have sex and gamble to do their job!

Gentlemen, consider that occasionally, a lot of this discussion happens in the ladies only "powder room" and on other boards that are accessible only by verified Escorts / providers.

The postulate that a LEO or a CI/CW cannot have sex with you and then arrest or cite you (or have you investigated, arrested or cited) is a myth!

#2. Discussion of money is not a problem.

HOWEVER, tying a discussion of money to the promised or implied performance of a sexual act for money is illegal. Even using an acronym such as GFE in an advertisement and then discussing money can land either party in hot water. If you discuss fee (which is perfectly legal to do) ensure you are consistently speaking about a fee for time, and not a specific, overt or implied illegal act.

This is a difficult concept for many gentlemen to grasp, and most Escorts / providers that are new to the endeavor might be better off to just NOT discuss money . . . however, the discussion of a fee in and of itself is not necessarily a "red flag".

The postulate that discussing fee at any time is an indicator that one of the parties to the transaction is a LEO or a CI/CW is a myth!

#3. Asking for something "else" is not going to help you in any instance, if you've stumbled into a "sting" or you are dealing with a LEO or a CI/CW.

Most all state statutes dealing with prostitution (and the solicitation thereof) also address activity that may satisfy the "prurient interest" (prurient - adjective: having or encouraging an excessive interest in sexual matters). Also, if it is a "sting", you're not EVER going to "get what you asked for . . . in the worse case scenario".

Just showing up will get you ticketed or arrested.

The postulate that asking for something "legal" will protect you from a legal entanglement is a myth!

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Be safe everyone!

Kisses,

- Jackie

Naomi4u · 12-09-2010, 10:17 AM

The only way to avoid LE is by screening. There is NO other way to avoid them. If they want you they will get you. It doesn't matter if you ask them to bark like a dog and moo like a cow and they do it. It doesn't prove anything. That just makes you look even more guilty. LOL!

MsElena · 12-09-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51MEANTXGUNS50

After seeing a whole bunch of different threads and questions pertaining to spotting LE and how to avoid getting clipped, I thought I'd help everyone out with simple facts that should help both providers and their clients be able to detect the real deals from UC's.

#1. An undercover cop or informant working for cops can NEVER make inappropriate contact with you or it's entrapment. For instance, Girls, if you aren't sure of the guy, in a playful and flirty way, maybe grab on him, or grab his hands and place them on certain areas of your body. I know providers who also work as dancers do this often so I'm sure there's a way you can incorporate this tactic when seeing a man you aren't sure of. Guys, it's even easier for you. Suppose the provider in question has a nice rack, ask her if she's all natural, real or not, if she's for real she'll usually respond by asking if you to feel for yourself. If she's got a nice booty or nice legs I'm sure you can somehow work in a comment that would work. If she's for real, she'd have no problem letting you cop a feel.

#2. Constantly and specifically bringing up money = red flag. Hobbyist or provider. I remember back when I had no vehicle, to and from work I'd have to pass by a motel where not only was there alot of street walkers, but cops knew damn well that this place was a well known hang out for them. Girls were ALWAYS propositioning me, but they were doing so in this exact manner and for that I always felt uneasy in that area.

#3. If your really in doubt, ask for/offer services that technically don't count as sexual favors. Topless dancing, massage, nude modeling, UC's won't bother with any of these activities but the real deals know what they lead to. Worst case scenario you only get what you asked for, but then again that's a good case scenario because I don't know bout the rest of you fellas but I like me a good massage or lap dance so to me it's all good in my book.

Guess that's just about it. Hope this helps everyone. Be safe and if you have any questions feel free to speak on it ladies and gents !

I'm sorry, but everything that you listed here.....is false. Jackie on the other hand made some excellent points and is correct.

If I may ask, are you a lawyer or a cop? If you are a lawyer, are you able to practice law in each different county, city or state? How do you know the laws for each county, city or state as they are mostly different and each police dept operates differently. Police depts have their own agendas.

My honest opinion is that you're trying to give information that is incorrect for a reason and what that reason is, I don't know.

Ladies do your own research and when in doubt, contact a criminal attorney who can help you understand the laws better.

Chica Chaser · 12-09-2010, 11:38 AM

Jackie has absolutely nailed it! Everyone...go back up and read it again...and again until you get it!

Naomi, a post of yours that I wholeheartedly agree with! If the lady is targeted, she's gonna take a ride downtown. Thats why it's so important to screen the client, long before he is able to show up at your door. Its way too late at that point and all the BS cop-check, grab-ass, show me your cock, place the donation in an envelope in the bathroom procedures aren't gonna make a bit of difference.

Some people think they are protected by the entrapment defense, they would be wrong.
Entrapment is basically enticing you to do something illegal that you would not have done without the enticement. That defense does not generally work in this business; as simply showing up at her incall, or her showing up at yours, pretty well establishes your intent to commit the illegal act.

Of course all of this is a moot point.....as long as you can convince that jury that nothing illegal was going on!

ShysterJon · 12-10-2010, 12:42 PM

I think there are at least three problems with this post. First, it's based on limited, anecdotal evidence. Second, the OP's experiences are in one area of Texas only, and LE's practices in his community may be quite different from those in other parts of Texas, let alone in other states. Finally, it is a very dangerous practice for a non-lawyer to use terms of art in the legal profession. For example, what is "entrapment" in Texas is a hotly debated topic among courts, prosecutors, and criminal defense attorneys. A layperson with only a casual understanding of what may constitute entrapment does a disservice rendering legal opinions on such a matter when those opinions may be relied upon by others to their detriment.

51MEANTXGUNS50 · 12-11-2010, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

I think there are at least three problems with this post. First, it's based on limited, anecdotal evidence. Second, the OP's experiences are in one area of Texas only, and LE's practices in his community may be quite different from those in other parts of Texas, let alone in other states. Finally, it is a very dangerous practice for a non-lawyer to use terms of art in the legal profession. For example, what is "entrapment" in Texas is a hotly debated topic among courts, prosecutors, and criminal defense attorneys. A layperson with only a casual understanding of what may constitute entrapment does a disservice rendering legal opinions on such a matter when those opinions may be relied upon by others to their detriment.

This here just about summed it up. I know about vice squads and deep cover projects, but I never thought they'd really be utilized to clip providers or hobbyists. I mean I can see state and federal agencies going this far to infiltrate major crime rackets, key word major, but them going all "deep cover" to clip a couple of providers or hobbyists ? Seems like a waste of time and resources if you ask me. Plus I'll be totally honest with you, most of what I listed is a combination of what dancers have shared with me as well as *shakes head in humiliation* something I saw in an episode of "Manswers".

Based on my personal run ins with the law your average LE tends to be pretty sanctimonious and uppity about how they COULD break the law to bust someone, but how they wouldn't "stoop to that level", lest they be no different than the people they bust. Of course as the post right before this one mentions, the information I've given is based on local PDs in my area. I guess in my eagerness to want to be helpful and break the ice here I momentarily forgot that this is a forum populated by people all over the country. Wow, LEs going "deep cover" just to clip a couple of providers ? That's literally a new one for me.......... Damn.

DRorchia · 12-11-2010, 07:15 AM

That's why it's never a wise idea to comment in general on matters of law. As some posters above stated each state has it's own laws in regards to prostitution, solicitation etc and they vary wildly. In addition to state law, some cities pass city ordinances to deal with specific problems they may have in that specific city, whether it's streetwalkers, panhandlers etc and those city ordinances can and are enforced by the Police as well. Last but not least, each and every Police Dpt, Sheriff Dpt etc have their own department SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures) which lay out the tactics and procedures for their officers in how they approach everything from traffic stops, narcotics and vice enforcement among others. So between the State laws, city ordinances and Department SOP's, there is no way one can or should give advice in legal matters on how to avoid arrest. As one poster stated, screening is vital if one wants to avoid problems. 51MTXG50 stated he's heard some of the advice from dancers. I sure don't want to take anything away from people working in that profession but I can assure you I would not rely on them for legal advice. First and foremost because many of them HAVE been arrested. Streetwalkers often live on rumors and no matter how many of them have been arrested, they still believe that if they ask the client if he's "the law, or a police officer" then then Police Officer must tell them or it's "entrapment". In Texas that is most certainly NOT the case. I will say that most prosecutors in Texas will not take a case where a Police Officer "completed" full service. It calls into question that Officer's integrity and it brings embarrassment to the Department. That's not to say it's never happened, however Departments usually address that in their SOP's, especially the larger Departments.
Stay safe out there!