Can a review be used as evidence in a prostitution case?

[Liketobelicked]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

I'm not a tech-nerd, but tech-nerd expert witnesses say that an IP can be hijacked. I still think having the IP isn't enough to lay the predicate of authenticity, even with everything else I've mentioned. But I'm a criminal defense attorney, not a prosecutor or a judge.

Take federal prosecutions for possessing child pornography. The SOP is a federal agent interacts with someone online, receives child pornography from the person on a file-transfer site, then traces the person's IP. The feds don't file a case based only on the IP. They go to the person's house with a search warrant and find child pornography on his computer. Because of the nature of federal crimes, the person will usually find it in their best interest to confess and otherwise cooperate with the authorities. Now compare that emphasis with a state prosecution for doing a little flippy-floppy with a sporting girl and Barney Fife only having the reviewer's IP. There really is no comparison.

SJ, there is a hell of a lot of developing case law on IP addresses being admissible as criminal res ipsa loquitur evidence (which is a bit different than how it is used in civil cases). The internet and the law are always changing their relationship, but the case law is pretty clear that IP addresses are ipso facto evidence of posting, especially combined with a computer warrant search and log in information gained via warrant or subpoena.

Just saying that this is a rapidly changing area of law.

[pmdelites]

so is this "Law and Order: Sexual Shenanigans" or is this Eccie??


seriously, very good posts all around, even eccl3 and fancyInHeels!!!

[Guest112916]

Sigh...you get to the point where you are happy hobbying, letting your guard down to see so many fictitious pretty gals and then an eye opening, wake up call thread like this pops up....

Guess I better go write my Hallmark Special, all this is made up for rntertainment purposes only reviews.

[jan-w]

Lot's of interesting stuff here. Thanks for posting.

[boo-boo bear]

I could be anywhere from partially wrong to fully wrong, but even if they traced the IP to Joe Schmucks address, what does that prove? It MAY show that allegedly someone at that address may have visited some site. So even if they subpoena to search on what basis is the search? They have no specific proof of a specific activity committed by a specific person. And in the request are they not required to prove to the court a reasonable belief of an activity by person and or location? And do they not have to specify in the search request what it is they seek?

Could they get the request? Yes
Could they execute a search? Yes
Could they execute tickets and arrests? Yes

Could a competent defense lawyer beat the rap? Yes, but only if you follow the STFU rule. Just because the cast a net far and wide, most likely they need your mouth to seal the case for them, don't do it, STFU and make them do all the work. Intimidation is one of their favorite weapons, don't fall for it.

Always remember that just because you can beat the rap does not mean that you will beat the ride!!!

[bobcatalpha3-6]

If you are not busted by an undercover, not much chance you will be busted at all.

[GentlemanCaller007]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

Suppose you wrote in a review, "I cried EW-WEE-GONGA when I blew my manly swimmers in her fetching face fuckhole!"

OMG! SJ That is TOO funny!

I cried reading that post I got laughing so hard. Who knew lawyers could be so funny? I guess most of us only see y'all in your serious mode (or fortunately don't see y'all at all except on TV)

Cheers for sharing your razor sharp wit!

[SteveGoldstein]

What do I know, but....?

Per Federal Rule of Evidence 801(d)(2)(a), a statement made by a defendant is admissible as evidence only if it is inculpatory;

Hence, if the defendent in the case made a review, such "statement" would be admissable if it met every other obligation previously mentioned herein. This is true even if defendent did not take the stand to defend himself.

[brickmonster]

Prostitution Is a very minor crime . Cops are not going to try to hard . Lets be real , It would be alot like picking up a coke can on the side of the road and then running for dna to figure out who through it out . By the way don't litter because it will most likely cost you more than getting busted seeing an escort .

[Randall Creed]

A review doesn't prove that $$$$ was exchanged for sex.

Yeah, I went and saw so and so on this day. Maybe I left a fee, maybe I didn't.

Money? Uhhhh, what money?? Oh, I just put a number in the [review] box because that's part of the review. It's a required entry.

Now, if you're in the arena where a REAL crime was committed (assault, murder, etc), then I can see a review being used as evidence, though I'm inclined to believe no one would write a review about a provider they assaulted in the process unless they're just dumb.

A review is...storytelling. Hell, I can write one of say, Reese Foster right now. I've never seen her, but I can read other reviews and 'borrow' information to create similarities so that my review reads 'credibly' to an audience such as ourselves on this board. Do you REALLY know if I actually saw her or not, or if my dick was in her or not, or if I left a fee or not? Any proof of this? Any PHYSICAL proof of me and her 'exchanging', sex and/or money?

Oh, sure, you saw me walking into a place she was in. I just stopped by to say hello. Did you see my dick go inside of her? Did you see me hand her money? Oh, but I 'reviewed' her? I 'reviewed' Beyonce, too. Let's get her in here for questioning as well.



I'm inclined to believe that a reasonably decent defense lawyer would tear the review angle as evidence apart. I'm just a shadetree lawyer. I could be wrong, though.

[aggietigger]

You guys watch way too much CSI and give Police too much credit. They won't care to do more than a minimal amount of work on a prostitution bust... We have much more time on our hands to think about the "CSI" stuff than they would ever care to spend.

Case in point:

I discovered a fraudulent credit charge on my card for a few thousand dollars. I called the vendor (an on-line website) and gave the transaction ID to them. They gave me the IP address of the person who bought the item. I did a (simple and open) reverse-DNS look-up and discovered it belonged to a Houston Time Warner Cable Modem. I called Time Warner, and after a little haggling (I will not go into what I had to say\lie to get this) they gave me the customer address of the Cable Modem.

I then called the Houston police, got shuffled around to a few different divisions because no one knew how to handle a computer\fraud crime... (WTF?) finally got an officer on the line and told them everything I did, including the address of the person who used my credit card, and was told "nothing can be done because it dose not meet the minimum financial requirements for an officer to be assigned."

I was dumfounded....

[Daen1304]

I work as a manager in a restaurant that is open 24/7. I meet a lot of cops, we even have security brought to us by DPD on weekend nights. Well, when I feel comfortable enough around an officer I would ask his or her opinion on some of the more controversal laws. I have asked many about their thoughts on prostitution. And all but one replied with along the lines of, "Unless I am assigned that department, I don't give a damn." Hell several wanted to legalize and regulate it so they can have the Johns rat out on Pimps and human trafficking. Now I doubt I have talked to anyone in the prostitution department, so don't think they will be nice.

Hell the only 2 that ever showed any reaction to me bringing up prostitution were two Narcotics Officers. Essentially they were undercover and flashed their badges at me under the table for the police discount. Later they came back in when it was dead and I asked why they did that. They said they heard "this place was cool" and wanted to see how I would play it off. I asked how did they know I didn't do drugs and wouldn't blow their cover. They just started laughing their asses off. They the explained that if I ever tried to buy drugs I'd get shot cause I look like how they think an undercover cop looks. And that I was too much of a whitebread nerd to do drugs. I replied "Hey, I'm a lonely nerd, you never know I could be into escorts." (This was before I was so it wasn't too stupid). They perked they hell up. Like a dog hearing the word treat. "You serious? We would make it worth your while if you can get us a pimp!" They didn't even care about the girls, they just wanted the pimps because some distribute drugs to girls to keep them in line.

My point is, that most cops don't care. And if they got you were they are checking your computer and reviews, then you either pissed someone off, or you know something that they want and they are looking for things to extort you with.

Originally Posted by aggietigger

You guys watch way too much CSI and give Police too much credit. They won't care to do more than a minimal amount of work on a prostitution bust... We have much more time on our hands to think about the "CSI" stuff than they would ever care to spend.

Case in point:

I discovered a fraudulent credit charge on my card ...

I have a similar story, customers phone was stolen off his table when he was in the restroom. We had photage of who did it and the perps CC number. Called the cops and they wouldn't do anything since the phone had insurance.

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

IrishPussyLover is a mere figment of my imagination. btw, as a Scot, I feel affinity for the Irish, also among the six Celtic tribes. Scots are like the Irish, although we have jobs and we're usually sober.

Since I am Irish, but I am also sober and employed, does that make me scottish?

[Fancyinheels]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

...IrishPussyLover is a mere figment of my imagination. btw, as a Scot, I feel affinity for the Irish, also among the six Celtic tribes. Scots are like the Irish, although we have jobs and we're usually sober.

Scots blow their own bagpipes. 'Tis a shame; no underwear under those kilts but little to impress us Irish lassies enough to look.

[Deva Divine]

Deleted due to redundancy, forgot to quote... see thread below.

[Deva Divine]

The bottom line is: If you hobby, you're engaging in criminal activity. Engaging in criminal activity involves the risk of criminal prosecution therefor. If you want to lessen your risk, don't write reviews. But you'd have to be borderline paranoid to think that way. Instead, write reviews, but be discreet and use common sense when you do so.

When I asked a client for a discrete review and he tried to write one, he was told it did not conform to the rules. Much to our surprise, the review was allowed to remain on the board. And several people replied that there was not enough details for the review to be useful to them. I guess maybe discretion is a turn-off, and imagine there are lurkers who save money by masturbating to review details, instead of seeing ladies.