Testosterone I'm a big fan!

[Mopar71]

Why can't you use just one needle to both draw and shoot-why the need to switch?? and do you HAVE to switch?? any info is appreciated. Thx.

[Guest120614-1]

Originally Posted by Mopar71

Why can't you use just one needle to both draw and shoot-why the need to switch?? and do you HAVE to switch?? any info is appreciated. Thx.

I think the switch is more about using a smaller gage to stick and using the larger gage to draw because its easier? I could be wrong.

[OldGrump]

Originally Posted by MrMonger

I think the switch is more about using a smaller gage to stick and using the larger gage to draw because its easier? I could be wrong.

That is precisely the reason. The same applies to penile injections. The smaller the better "down there".

[SpiceItUp]

Originally Posted by Mopar71

Why can't you use just one needle to both draw and shoot-why the need to switch?? and do you HAVE to switch?? any info is appreciated. Thx.

You don't NEED to switch but it's much faster to draw with a larger needle. Also if you draw and inject with the same needle just pushing the needle through the rubber stopper can dull the point causing more discomfort when injecting. So drawing with a larger needle makes it faster, and switching to a smaller one ensures a perfectly sharp needle.

18 and 25 gauge BD Integra 3cc syringes with 1" BD PrecisionGlide needles cost like 20 cents apiece at CVS, no reason to skimp.

[Prolongus]

Couple questions for the guys that are being treated and have been for a while:

1. Did you notice any changes in your sleep patterns?

2. I work out 4-5 days a week (cardio mixed in with weights/bands). For the guys that do this, how has taken testosterone treatments benefitted you...or did it?

Thanks in advance. Got my blood tests done and I'm low so the urologist is gonna start me next week.

[SD2011]

Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

I'm by no means trying to put myself forth as a subject matter expert nor am I a physician I'm merely providing a basic primer. I encourage you to do your own research to confirm my assertions.

With that said, I will tell you that you haven't provided enough information to even formulate an opinion. What else is being tested and what are those numbers, i.e. Estradiol, SBHG, Free T? What dosage are you on and at what intervals? Also, are those labs done at peak or trough? It is best to always do labs one day before your scheduled injection (this would be your trough level) to be sure you don't drop to subnormal levels at any point. Large hormonal swings do sometimes result in adverse emotional side effects (e.g. depression, mood swings, etc...)

The fact that your labs seem to be all over the place possibly indicates an inconsistent testing protocol resulting in pointlessly trying to compare and draw meaningful conclusions from 3 blood draws at various points in the peak-trough cycle.

With testosterone cypionate and testosterone enanthate, peak serum levels are reached approximately 48 hours after injection and drop to subnormal levels after 7-10 days and baseline levels after 14 days. If your body's natural testosterone production has been shut down with TRT your baseline is very low.

Schiavi, Raul C., et al. "Effect of testosterone administration on sexual behavior and mood in men with erectile dysfunction." Archives of sexual behavior 26.3 (1997): 231-241.

Remember, the ideal administration will minimize the oscillations between peak and trough levels. If you could inject every single day that would best mimic the body's natural production. Since that's not practical once a week is fine, but many do it every third day. Some doctors want to do an injection every 2 weeks and others even out to a month but that betrays either a lack of understanding about the metabolism and absorption characteristics or about the negative side effects of wide hormonal oscillations.

Longer intervals also increase aromatization to Estradiol. High Estradiol also can have negative emotional side effects. Often the answer to lowering E is simply to increase the injection frequency.

This board is probably not the place to discuss case specific inquiries which are better directed toward those who are subject matter experts. I recommend this forum.

I would also say given his lab fluctuations that his thyroid probably needs to be checked over a three month period. Too many times there's an issue there that is overlooked and Testosterone is tossed that way by default to compensate. It's probably the most undertreated common issue for many of the symptoms hitting men (and women) and missed in diagnosis far too often.

[SomethingOnTheSide]

Originally Posted by Prolongus

1. Did you notice any changes in your sleep patterns?

2. I work out 4-5 days a week (cardio mixed in with weights/bands). For the guys that do this, how has taken testosterone treatments benefitted you...or did it?

i am an early adopter and been on TRT for years to keep my levels on the higher end of the range. life was good when i was a young teen and had high levels so why not keep that going?

i sleep very well.

i am well into middle-age. i do heavy weights and cardio (not machines, i run outdoors) and believe that i am more fit that most of the younger guys. our bodies adapt to what we expose them to. sitting at desk will kill you. get out and exercise like an athlete. it is nice to hear a provider comment right away - "you work out".

if you take statins and BP meds then you have given up. you can change that. it is a personal choice.

invest in yourself and maximize your life. start on TRT. one caution, your hobby budget may need to be increased as a direct result.

i have a great MD and i have been trusting him for years now.

[Prolongus]

That's great to hear, SOTS...been debating this for a while now and glad I'm going to give it a go.

And you are SO RIGHT about what sitting at a desk all day will do to you.

[oldmarine]

I was getting an injection every two weeks and it was like riding a roller coaster. My T level would jump up for about a week right after the shot and then taper off until the next one. It affected my moods and sleep patterns. I got real tired of that up and down crap so my doc switched me to AndroGel 1.2%. It is an alcohol based gel that you rub on the shoulder area once a day. It works great and I stay on an even keel. The down side is cost. A 30 day supply can run over $400 if your insurance does not cover it. Fortunately, I pay a fraction of that.

[Mopar71]

I go to my doc tomorrow, I think I'll ask for the shots instead of the gel because of the cost which was $400.00. Hopefully he will agree to let me give myself the shots instead of having to go in for them. Thx for all the answers all.

[digitalbananna351]

A year or so my T number came up low under normal testing... so I started on the creme.... no real increase... so my Dr changed me over to the injections.. they showed me how to do it so I could do the weekly injections myself..... about 2 days after my 1st injection my food cravings were off the charts... and my appetite has increased significantly.... I feel like I was in my 20's.... is that normal? It has been a week, and I have lost 8 lbs... it is like this stuff woke up my metabolism big time...

[peevee0931]

well I go to the wonderful VA and they only give the pills

[Prolongus]

My urologist prescribed Fortesta gel. I asked him about the injections but he wants to start this way and if the gel doesn't work, then go to the injections. Gotta say, I felt "urges" just a couple hours after rubbing it in. And he gave me a coupon for it: $25 vs. $215.

Updates to come.

[OldGrump]

This has been one of the best threads yet. There has been some very good information shared here and I'd like to give special thanks to SpiceItUp for his expertise and references.

My endoncronologist will prescribe the gel or shots. She prefers the gel and doesn't do the beads. My urologist likes the beads. Once they can agree that other tests are stable and I can go on T therapy, shots will be my choice. If the ups and downs bother me, go to the gel. Once a stable dose is determined, the beads may be a good option.

Correct my logic here:

With the shots and gel, the dosage can be adjusted "on the fly" while you're stuck with the beads until they wear off. Until the level is determined, that seems best.

The shots are cheaper which must be considered in connection with insurance. If they cover it, either one is fine. If you will be losing insurance and relying on your own or Medicare Part D, the shot gets a nudge.

For the long term with a known stable dosage, the beads look better. There is less frequent maintenance. Insurance considerations apply here too.

From the posts, it seems like the gel works for most but some have switched to shots. It gives a stable daily dose of T which seems ideal.

Those who took the shots like them. It would seem that the ups and downs could be reduced by adjusting the timing and dosage of the injections.

The beads, which I originally thought I preferred, may not last until the next scheduled implant. Also, I don't understand how the dosage is determined for the first time.

I"m still processing all of this with a list of questions for my next doctor visit.

[Guest051315-2]

I'm in my late 30's and was on injection T about 3 years ago. The problem, and the reason I went off it, it because once you start supplementing T your body stops making it. This leads to a condition called "hypogonadism", i.e. Your balls shrink.

I didn't want that to happen so I stopped.

This really is a touchy subject and you really have to weigh the risk/benefit ratio. For me I'd rather take a boner pill and get my T to elevate through exercise.

Just remember that the more fat you have, the more estrogen your body produces. Get rid of the fat and T raises automatically. Most men after 40 have low T because they have too much belly fat.

Just my $.02