What is the average overall tax rate?

[themystic]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

From reading reports on various News Sites, the average American Tax Payer is an imbecile.

Due to the way the IRS is collecting taxes each week, people will actually get less of a "refund", or in better terms, they will get back less money that they overplayed through the year.

These people don't realize that they actually paid less in taxes. All they see is a smaller "refund", which for many has become a "forced savings" through the year.

So, due to the tax payers ignorance, many liberal News Outlets are reporting that people are actually paying more in taxes, the proof being that they are not getting a "refund".

Trump minions calling anyone ignorant is a joke LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

Aren't these the people who now are praising the Wall Trump has already built? I used to think Trump cheerleaders weren't stupid. I have since changed my mind.


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Tiny

No, I don't. Some rich person might pay up to 43.4% tax when he receives the income (up to 56.7% in California) and then another 40% when he gives it away. That's not fair.

Agree. Double taxation of the same money.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

From reading reports on various News Sites, the average American Tax Payer is an imbecip
https://www.kansas.com/news/nation-w...226062400.html

These people don't realize that they actually paid less in taxes. All they see is a smaller "refund", which for many has become a "forced savings" through the year.

So, due to the tax payers ignorance, many liberal News Outlets are reporting that people are actually paying more in taxes, the proof being that they are not getting a "refund".

Very true. I'm laughing this week at those people saying their income tax refunds are less than last year when they were expecting more due to the new tax laws. I assume they didn't notice their paychecks got bigger at some point in time. Oh well.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by themystic

Tiny there have been 3 major tax cuts for the rich. Reagan, Bush 43 & now Trump. The jury is still out on Trump but the other two led to giant deficits and failure

Mystic, How many times are we going to rehash this?

1. You appear to think that tax rates on the rich have a huge effect on the economy and the deficit. They don't. They're a small part of the equation, compared to things like interest rates, the economic cycle, overall levels of taxation and spending, globalization, technology, etc., etc.

2. The economy and people in general did well under Reagan. His administration was not a failure.

3. The economy during the Reagan administration was recovering from a worse disaster, combination stagflation and a recession, than the 2008/2009 financial crisis. Interest rates had to go sky high to stamp out inflation. This put the economy into a recession, caused tax collection to go down (lower income = less income tax collection), and increase government expenditure on interest payments. You condemn Reagan for running up the budget deficit but give Obama a pass under similar conditions. When Reagan left office the national debt was still manageable, around 50% of GDP.

4. Reagan's increased defense spending, financed with deficits, arguably brought down the Soviet Union, thus saving us money in the long run and making the world safe. I say arguably because I don't entirely agree with this.

5. Reagan as someone, Dilbert or BB pointed out, served with a Democratic House of Representatives during his administration. The House has the power of the purse, and is responsible for the budget. Just as you could blame Democrats for deficit spending during the Reagan administration, so could you praise House Republicans for the budget surplus during Clinton's second term.

6. Deficits under Bush are attributable to his war in Iraq and a financial crisis caused by out of control mortgage loans and weak regulation of financial institutions, not tax cuts for the wealthy.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

So, due to the tax payers ignorance, many liberal News Outlets are reporting that people are actually paying more in taxes, the proof being that they are not getting a "refund".

Another symptom of the financial illiteracy in our country. How many people only think about their monthly payments, and give no consideration to the interest rate or how much money they'll flush down the toilet on interest expense before they pay off their auto loan or whatever? It's frightening.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Agree. Double taxation of the same money.

So once money has been taxed...it can no longer be taxed.

Once your paycheck has been netted out....then say one should not have pay say a sales tax on gas?

I've never understood this logic.

[rexdutchman]

^^^Yup^^^ And if you really look into the tax,s you pay gas, retail, loans etc it is truly FRIGHTENING
40% ish,,,,,

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Take the rich guy selling tanks out of the argument and we're in agreement.

The gift and estate tax raise a pittance. Again, you should look more at the spending side of the equation. What happened to the trillions we spent on Iraq? How about subsidies to agriculture? Pork barrel spending? You could go on and on.

The rich guys selling tanks is the problem because of his influence on government policy.

If he can influence government to war, to borrow money to buy his tanks, to lower his tax rates , to influence no taxes on his estate.

That is really just a transfer of wealth.

What is needed is tax policy designed to incentivize pay as you go.

Why should the next generation be sattled which the prior Generations excesses?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by WTF

So once money has been taxed...it can no longer be taxed.

Once your paycheck has been netted out....then say one should not have pay say a sales tax on gas?

I've never understood this logic.

The double taxation is at the federal level. Sales tax is at the local/state level. Different people taking the money out of your pocket.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

From reading reports on various News Sites, the average American Tax Payer is an imbecile.

.

Yes Jackie....for instance they want security but do not want to pay the taxes to match their wants, thus we are passing on to the next generation a huge deficit.

Many people want to blame SS and Medicare as the blame when in fact it is Defense Spending that we have borrowed for.

[nevergaveitathought]

what is the average overall tax rate huh?

I know im getting into this late but lets see


the "average overall tax rate" is probably close to zero calculated nationally per capita

although that's difficult to determine

one the one hand (looking at it from a small business standpoint):

you have a nominal max fed income tax rate of 37%

but then there's 3.8% tax called a net investment tax, if you make over $250,000 and have any investments

There's continued medicare tax on all earned income of 2.9% and you pay it on every one you hire also

here's social security tax at 12.4% but that's capped at around $130,000 of earned income and you pay it on everyone you hire

There's unemployment tax on the first $7,000, there's state unemployment tax on the first $9,000 the rate can vary but again you pay it on every employee you hire

and then theres tax on not buying health insurance, or having to buy it can be considered a tax

And then there's:

Severance tax of 7.5% on gas and 4.6% on oil
There's property tax on everything

there's sales tax of 8.2%

there's all sorts of hidden excise taxes
There's gasoline and diesel tax

if you live in a state with an income tax maybe your looking at another 9%


and then there's accounting gimmicks built in the tax law where you might have a loss on real estate or some business investment and you can't deduct it because you are too busy working so you have someone else run the thing and so that works to raise your tax rate if you figure it on money into your pocket

and then there's finally a 20% deduction for "qualified business income" which is ok and started in 2018, but its limited unless you have a lot of payroll and assets used in the business

and then if you sell an investment like stock or anything at a loss, you can only deduct $3,000 of the loss per year, even if you lost a $1,000,000, and that has to raise your average tax rate figured on net income

so on the high end, you might have an effective rate of who knows what on real income into your pocket every year

If you die and you've been able to accumulate anything much at all, they can tax 40% of anything over 11 million but the exemption was a lot lower in 2017

then on the other hand:

you have a lot of people not paying in much at all

or receiving more than they pay in

or using an underground economy and not paying in anything except maybe sales tax

sales tax does catch people, making them pay in a bit

and then you have people like john and Teresa Kerry, she has what like $500,000,000 in state and local tax free bonds so as to not pay any tax, and Kerry docks his boat outside his state to escape tax on the boat

[WTF]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

The double taxation is at the federal level. Sales tax is at the local/state level. Different people taking the money out of your pocket.

I say taxes are taxes but a small disagreement. Not really worth debating.

This to me is...
So what do you think about the Federal Deficit?

Are you ok with one generation passing off their excesses to the next?

I have no problem eliminating the gift and inheritance tax if the Federal deficit is close to zero.

I want people to feel the pain of say a war. I want their taxes to go up to pay for the war they want...not down and passed to the next generation.

Maybe that would lead to better educated voters. When their taxes go up because of their wants.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

what is the average overall tax rate huh?

I know im getting into this late but lets see


the "average overall tax rate" is probably close to zero

g

Zero

Wtf are you talking about?

Let's say it is not enough as evidenced by the federal deficit !

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by WTF

Zero

Wtf are you talking about?

Let's say it is not enough as evidenced by the federal deficit !

exactly my point

we spend more than we take in, and we spend it on a lot of people

try to keep up WTF

you say the right thing at times but you don't understand that what you just said makes my point

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by WTF

Why should the next generation be sattled which the prior Generations excesses?

Tradition mostly.