Why Not Progressive Conservatism?

[dilbert firestorm]

https://www.theamericanconservative....-conservatism/


Donald Trump practice a form of Progressive Conservatism. at least, that's what the article proposes regarding donald trump.

it does make points about intersectionality/identity politics vs. nationalism.

article makes interesting points between "vertical" nationalism vs."horizontal" nationalism.

Nationalism has a gravitational force that pulls one leftward on social welfare policies, which is why the Trump agenda is both nationalistic and progressive. The new breed of nationalists hasn’t noticed, but nationalism takes two very different forms. Vertical nationalism desires its country’s glory, its preeminence over that of other countries. Horizontal nationalism rests on a sense of kinship to and fraternity with fellow citizens, and that in turn implies free market policies that create the economic conditions that provide jobs (with a better understanding of economics than anyone possessed in 1911), as well as a generous social safety net for those who can’t work.

Historically, Republicans have been the party of vertical nationalism, and Democrats the party of horizontal nationalism. That kind of nationalism they left to the Democrats, to people like FDR. What was remarkable about the 2016 Republican victory was that, almost for the first time, a presidential candidate ran on a platform that united the two strands of nationalism.

If that’s what makes the progressive conservative progressive, he is also a conservative who thinks that the government should suppress riots forcefully, that the police are owed our presumptive support, and that nothing good was ever born out of anarchy. He thinks that we’re self-deceived about our goodness and that a sense of justified anger too often serves to excuse crimes.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

https://www.theamericanconservative....-conservatism/


Donald Trump practice a form of Progressive Conservatism. at least, that's what the article proposes regarding donald trump.

it does make points about intersectionality/identity politics vs. nationalism.

article makes interesting points between "vertical" nationalism vs."horizontal" nationalism.

Nationalism has a gravitational force that pulls one leftward on social welfare policies, which is why the Trump agenda is both nationalistic and progressive. The new breed of nationalists hasn’t noticed, but nationalism takes two very different forms. Vertical nationalism desires its country’s glory, its preeminence over that of other countries. Horizontal nationalism rests on a sense of kinship to and fraternity with fellow citizens, and that in turn implies free market policies that create the economic conditions that provide jobs (with a better understanding of economics than anyone possessed in 1911), as well as a generous social safety net for those who can’t work.

Historically, Republicans have been the party of vertical nationalism, and Democrats the party of horizontal nationalism. That kind of nationalism they left to the Democrats, to people like FDR. What was remarkable about the 2016 Republican victory was that, almost for the first time, a presidential candidate ran on a platform that united the two strands of nationalism.

If that’s what makes the progressive conservative progressive, he is also a conservative who thinks that the government should suppress riots forcefully, that the police are owed our presumptive support, and that nothing good was ever born out of anarchy. He thinks that we’re self-deceived about our goodness and that a sense of justified anger too often serves to excuse crimes.

Generally speaking, I don't like labels and if asked "politically speaking, what are you", I would prefer not to pick a label but explain what I think about major issues and the person asking can decide if they must have a label.


But if I must, then I'm definitely a Progressive Conservative using the description above taking special notice to the last sentence. A sense of "justified" anger can never be an excuse to commit a crime. Burning and looting is not protesting, it is a crime. Tearing down a statue is not a protest, it is a crime. If you want a statue removed, petition your elected representative to do it.


Attacking a police officer is not a form of protest, it is a crime, it is anarchy no matter how "justifiably" angry you are.



I think Vertical and Horizontal Nationalism, are two of the more silly descriptions I've ever heard.

[Kinkster90210]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

https://www.theamericanconservative....-conservatism/

Donald Trump practice a form of Progressive Conservatism. at least, that's what the article proposes regarding donald trump.

it does make points about intersectionality/identity politics vs. nationalism.

article makes interesting points between "vertical" nationalism vs."horizontal" nationalism.

Nationalism has a gravitational force that pulls one leftward on social welfare policies, which is why the Trump agenda is both nationalistic and progressive. The new breed of nationalists hasn’t noticed, but nationalism takes two very different forms. Vertical nationalism desires its country’s glory, its preeminence over that of other countries. Horizontal nationalism rests on a sense of kinship to and fraternity with fellow citizens, and that in turn implies free market policies that create the economic conditions that provide jobs (with a better understanding of economics than anyone possessed in 1911), as well as a generous social safety net for those who can’t work.

Historically, Republicans have been the party of vertical nationalism, and Democrats the party of horizontal nationalism. That kind of nationalism they left to the Democrats, to people like FDR. What was remarkable about the 2016 Republican victory was that, almost for the first time, a presidential candidate ran on a platform that united the two strands of nationalism.

If that’s what makes the progressive conservative progressive, he is also a conservative who thinks that the government should suppress riots forcefully, that the police are owed our presumptive support, and that nothing good was ever born out of anarchy. He thinks that we’re self-deceived about our goodness and that a sense of justified anger too often serves to excuse crimes.

Donald Trump isn't capable of developing a governing philosophy. He pulls shit out of his ass to fit the moment.

One day he will announce sanctions on China and the next day you find out the relaxed them or waive them in order to please soy bean farmers or whomever.

I don't think the man has ever read a book that wasn't about him or that didn't have pictures in it. So, I'm skeptical about him forming progressive conservatism or any other "ism".

[oeb11]

The subsequent 'logic" - Biden is 'capable'.



Drop the scatology and hatred - discuss issues.

If you want a politically inflicted holocaust on america - vote Biden 2020!
The radical DPST's will leave america burned to the ground.



If not opposed by Civil War!

[Kinkster90210]

Originally Posted by oeb11

The subsequent 'logic" - Biden is 'capable'.

Drop the scatology and hatred - discuss issues.

If you want a politically inflicted holocaust on america - vote Biden 2020!
The radical DPST's will leave america burned to the ground.
If not opposed by Civil War!

Seriously? Are you following me around and policing my language?

How about YOU respond to my arguments that Trump isn't capable of forming a governing philosophy? What you posted above isn't a response.

It is irrelevant that Biden isn't capable of forming a governing philosophy either. Two wrongs don't make a right. Or are you conceding that Trump can't form a governing philosophy so you just attack Biden instead?

I really don't care about Biden's abundant faults.

I'm more concerned about the damage Trump has done to the GOP with his brainless tweets, his incompetence, and his boundless ego.

[oeb11]

My, My , My - hit a nerve.

When One shows One's elitist , entitled POV by referring to others of differing viewpoints in scatalogic terms - You lose all credence in an arguemnt, IMHO.



Just as H... in her elitist, entitled arrogant self lost the 2016 election - which is the One major sin of Trump to never be forgiven or forgotten by DPST's.



If Biden wins - I predict Trump will be placed under arrest and incarcerated without bail while awaiting trial for "Trumped Up" charges by the victors. It will happen the moment a New AG takes office - Likely Day 2 of 'Bide administration"!

Another way of destroying our representative democracy.

[Kinkster90210]

Originally Posted by oeb11

My, My , My - hit a nerve.

When One shows One's elitist , entitled POV by referring to others of differing viewpoints in scatalogic terms - You lose all credence in an arguemnt, IMHO.

Just as H... in her elitist, entitled arrogant self lost the 2016 election - which is the One major sin of Trump to never be forgiven or forgotten by DPST's.

If Biden wins - I predict Trump will be placed under arrest and incarcerated without bail while awaiting trial for "Trumped Up" charges by the victors. It will happen the moment a New AG takes office - Likely Day 2 of 'Bide administration"!

Another way of destroying our representative democracy.

Still not answering my post are you? That is a true indicator you have lost the argument. But go ahead and pretend you are "winning". You and Charlie Sheen.

And get something straight - I have been a lifelong GOP supporter. Always a small government advocate with a fairly strong libertarian streak.

But the GOP has been fucking up since at least Bush 43's second term - interminable wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and busted budgets. All they do is advocate tax cuts while borrowing money and throwing scraps to religious conservatives.

But there was SOME hope that the GOP would right the ship and get back to fiscal responsibility.

So, I had ZERO patience for the Never Trumpers who wanted to continue business as usual. They were only interested in clinging to power even if it meant running up deficits until we crash like Zimbabwe. They needed to be kicked out of power.

But Trump completely fucked up when he got into office with the exception of judicial appointments.

In the middle of the pandemic, with 140K dead, he is still tweeting about athletes taking a knee. WHO THE FUCK CARES AT THIS POINT? Does he really think that is going to win any votes at this point? The sports teams probably won't even play.

If you are going to drain the swamp, you have to be competent. He clearly is an incompetent ass. He is all message and no execution.

So, do you have some point to make about Trump being competent or delivering results? Or are you just going to avoid the subject AGAIN and scare us with idiotic posts about BLM and the DNC ending democracy. Or maybe talk about Biden's shortcomings instead?

[Unique_Carpenter]

Ok,
Progressive centralism?
Leftist conservatism?
I can come up with more.
IMO even as dysfunctist as our two party system is, it is better than a multiparty system that a lot of countries have that result in govt collapse every couple years

[oeb11]

Well K - You may represent yourself as a conservative - but you behave as entitled , elitist. obnoxious DPST Liberal.

go carry the banner for OBLM - perhaps they won't burn your house down - just destroy your business because it is capitalist, whitey, and not Communist and homophilic.

Methinks the Liberal doth protest too much!!!!

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Ok,
Progressive centralism?
Leftist conservatism?
I can come up with more.
IMO even as dysfunctist as our two party system is, it is better than a multiparty system that a lot of countries have that result in govt collapse every couple years

those other countries have a parliament system rather than a republican system.


parliament systems are generally unstable depending on the voting rules in place that govern them.

[Lucas McCain]

This is just my opinion, but the problem with Trump is that he is trying to run this country like a business. I have worked in Restructuring & Turnaround and the 1st thing I do is evaluate the C-Suites - whether they are the CEO, CFO. COO, CTO and etc.

Trump happens to be the CEO of this country. This country is going to shit. Just like with any company, you blame the CEO and you get rid of him or her immediately as soon as you realize their leadership and lack of strategy are grossly unfit to take that company to where it should be. Trump is that CEO.

Is Biden the answer? Fuck no, but neither is Trump so it's time for a change. I don't think anyone is excited about Biden. They just want Trump to STFU and go away.

In Trump's defense, I thought he did a good job for the most part. It's just time for a change.

[Kinkster90210]

Originally Posted by oeb11

Well K - You may represent yourself as a conservative - but you behave as entitled , elitist. obnoxious DPST Liberal.

go carry the banner for OBLM - perhaps they won't burn your house down - just destroy your business because it is capitalist, whitey, and not Communist and homophilic.

Methinks the Liberal doth protest too much!!!!

More name calling, mischaracterization of my politics, and projection of your own fears on to me.

Can you actually tell us what Trump's governing philosophy is? And "drain the swamp" isn't a governing philosophy.

Trump flies by the seat of his incompetent pants. I have no idea how will will react to any given crisis or how long it will be before he contradicts his earlier response to the crisis.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

This is just my opinion, but the problem with Trump is that he is trying to run this country like a business. I have worked in Restructuring & Turnaround and the 1st thing I do is evaluate the C-Suites - whether they are the CEO, CFO. COO, CTO and etc.

Trump happens to be the CEO of this country. This country is going to shit. Just like with any company, you blame the CEO and you get rid of him or her immediately as soon as you realize their leadership and lack of strategy are grossly unfit to take that company to where it should be. Trump is that CEO.

Is Biden the answer? Fuck no, but neither is Trump so it's time for a change. I don't think anyone is excited about Biden. They just want Trump to STFU and go away.

In Trump's defense, I thought he did a good job for the most part. It's just time for a change.

then by your vast experience you stay the course because the Captain is steering the ship straight. you just said Trump is. so you will vote for Trump because your alternative is this ..









God Emperor Trump thanks you for your vote.


BAHHAHAHAAAA

[Lucas McCain]

LOL, TWK. As I stated, Biden is not the answer. That dude probably won't even make it 2 years before something happens to him. He'll just get votes by default.

Make no mistake about it, but I read he had Sanders and AOC in his think tank. If, that's the case, I'm voting for Trump. I don't want either one of those two weird fuckers having anything to do with my taxes. I'd just quit my job with those two bozos once they make this country become a welfare state. I'm not paying for some motherfuckers' college tuition I don't even know. Thanks but no thanks with that proposal. That's just not going to happen. Sanders and AOC can be as crazy as they want to be, but you can only take so much craziness and then you just tap the fuck out.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

LOL, TWK. As I stated, Biden is not the answer. That dude probably won't even make it 2 years before something happens to him. He'll just get votes by default.

Make no mistake about it, but I read he had Sanders and AOC in his think tank. If, that's the case, I'm voting for Trump. I don't want either one of those two weird fuckers having anything to do with my taxes. I'd just quit my job with those two bozos once they make this country become a welfare state. I'm not paying for some motherfuckers' college tuition I don't even know. Thanks but no thanks with that proposal.

then vote for Trump because AOC and Bernie are shoving socialist shit up Joe's ass.



https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/polit...ons/index.html


Joint Biden-Sanders task forces unveil progressive platform after months of negotiations



there are a few 6 figure earners who post here, like you and me. i don't want Joey Corn Poop jacking up my taxes for a ton of "free" shit to freeloaders on my dime.



if Biden does win (he won't) i might just retire early too. i mean .. it will be rough but a couple million should last a while, yeah? should i start clipping coupons?



BAHAHAAAAA