Markets 9-2-2020

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

Your hero Trump is contibuting 3.7 Trillion to the national debt in one fiscal year.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

And democrats are pissed that it’s not enough.

The only reason the economy isn’t coming back even better than it is is because Democrat governors are refusing to reopen their states, purportedly due to Covid (total bullshit), in hope of keeping the economy depressed and increasing their election chances. They give zero fucks about people’s lives and businesses being destroyed.

[oeb11]

J - amen!!!
The racist marxist DPST's are intent on destruction of our representative democracy and complete marxist control of America.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

And democrats are pissed that it’s not enough.

The only reason the economy isn’t coming back even better than it is is because Democrat governors are refusing to reopen their states, purportedly due to Covid (total bullshit), in hope of keeping the economy depressed and increasing their election chances. They give zero fucks about people’s lives and businesses being destroyed.

Last time I checked Texas had a Republican governor. Restaurants at 50% capacity. Masks required in most cities and mid-size towns. Bars closed, although if they serve food in some capacity they can open but under strict rules. Texas was shut down, eased their restrictions and COVID-19 cases rose dramatically. Shut back down and cases decreased dramatically. Mamy colleges are remote-only.

[1blackman1]

Don’t confuse the Idiot Crew with things like facts, Speed. They have a set of core beliefs that are nonsensical but since Fox News and OAN tell them what to think, they’ll keep spewing nonsense.

[Lucas McCain]

I don't like Trump. Am I liberal now? I don't like Biden. Am I a conservative now? I don't like either one of those old geezers. Neither one of those old fuckers are fit to be POTUS IMO.

People need to be open minded and not be stuck in the mud. Trump is a mess just like Biden is as well. Biden will be elected only because many people have had enough of Trump's drama and his big obnoxious mouth that's full of shit.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

I'm not seeing how Biden is better than T R U M P. Biden is even more obnoxious, because his lies are even obvious to an idiot like me and he isn't scrutinized for it by the media. He just gets a pass because he's not T R U M P.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

Did you watch how he answered questions? He would look at his staff and wait for them to call on someone for him and then look around in confusion. I understand that he's not T R U M P, but other than that, I don't see the appeal. Dude flip flops.

[Grace Preston]

We're down 1000 points since this was posted. Maybe you should stop bragging about the markets (and others should stop criticizing the markets) until it stabilizes. Hasn't been stable for months-- and likely won't be stable for a few more months at least.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Last time I checked Texas had a Republican governor. Restaurants at 50% capacity. Masks required in most cities and mid-size towns. Bars closed, although if they serve food in some capacity they can open but under strict rules. Texas was shut down, eased their restrictions and COVID-19 cases rose dramatically. Shut back down and cases decreased dramatically. Mamy colleges are remote-only.

Thank goodness. Daily cases in Texas are falling and hopefully deaths will be too before long, thanks in no small part to Governor Abbott's executive orders for masks and bars issued this summer.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

The stock market-- contrary to what some will tell you-- is not the economy. Its the top tier of the economy. One of the great ways to send your stock prices soaring is with profitability-- and the shareholders don't care if that comes from increased sales.. or from laying off hundreds of employees and shifting margins around.

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

However-- a lot of folks I know aren't so lucky. You want to cry socialism anytime someone presents something that doesn't march in step with your beliefs-- the fact is.. the stock market is not the economy-- its only a representation of the wealthiest of those in the country. Bezos's wealth crossed the 200 billion mark.. but he has a lot of employees who receive some form of public assistance.

This is not true. Pension and other retirement funds own the majority of the market value of U.S. stocks. The largest may be Calpers, the California teachers retirement fund. Growth in the value of the market isn't coming from "laying off hundreds of employees and shifting margins around." At present it's coming mostly from tech and other fast growing companies like Jeff Bezo's Amazon, that are adding jobs. The lowest paid workers at Amazon receive $15 per hour. Most make more.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

The market is not an indicator of a healthy economy.

The market right now is an indicator of a sick economy. People think interest rates are going to be low for a long time to come, because they expect growth to be anemic. This causes share prices to be higher. Theoretically buying a stock for 50X earnings makes more sense than buying a 10 year bond yield yielding less than 1% per year, if you expect neither interest rates nor the company's earnings will change.

[Grace Preston]

Originally Posted by Tiny

This is not true. Pension and other retirement funds own the majority of the market value of U.S. stocks. The largest may be Calpers, the California teachers retirement fund. Growth in the value of the market isn't coming from "laying off hundreds of employees and shifting margins around." At present it's coming mostly from tech and other fast growing companies like Jeff Bezo's Amazon, that are adding jobs. The lowest paid workers at Amazon receive $15 per hour. Most make more.

I didn't say that the growth of the market is coming from that-- I said that the growth largely comes from profitability-- and that the companies don't necessarily care where that comes from. If they did care-- there wouldn't be so many companies outsourcing jobs to countries where they can pay ridiculously low wages. Its all about those sweet, sweet profits. However-- its nice to see that we both agree that the markets are a sign of a sick economy. People are going to be in for a rude awakening....



I've worked at Amazon. Its not as bad as folks crack it up to be-- but most folk are making base pay there (plus shift differential). Most people do not stay long enough to either move up, or receive the pay raise at the 18 month mark. A lot of long-timers are starting to leave because the incentives to perform are gone (no more free shares of stock, and no more performance based bonuses-- those suckers used to be worth up to 8% during the holidays). When they raised the base pay-- they took away pretty much every incentive to maintain good attendance and performance. Now-- people do the minimum that they can do to avoid getting fired. Morale is shit. When you factor in the price of stock... raising the pay from 12.50 to 15.. but taking away all the extras-- resulted in a pay cut for many.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

The DJIA went up 12,000 points under Obama/Biden. The DJIA, NASDAQ, S&P500, and the Wilshire5000 all set all time highs under Obama/Biden. Capitalism ruled under Obama/Biden. Plus the deficit went down to under 584 Billion. Thanks Obama/Biden.

If only that were true...

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

I didn't say that the growth of the market is coming from that-- I said that the growth largely comes from profitability-- and that the companies don't necessarily care where that comes from. If they did care-- there wouldn't be so many companies outsourcing jobs to countries where they can pay ridiculously low wages. Its all about those sweet, sweet profits. However-- its nice to see that we both agree that the markets are a sign of a sick economy. People are going to be in for a rude awakening....



I've worked at Amazon. Its not as bad as folks crack it up to be-- but most folk are making base pay there (plus shift differential). Most people do not stay long enough to either move up, or receive the pay raise at the 18 month mark. A lot of long-timers are starting to leave because the incentives to perform are gone (no more free shares of stock, and no more performance based bonuses-- those suckers used to be worth up to 8% during the holidays). When they raised the base pay-- they took away pretty much every incentive to maintain good attendance and performance. Now-- people do the minimum that they can do to avoid getting fired. Morale is shit. When you factor in the price of stock... raising the pay from 12.50 to 15.. but taking away all the extras-- resulted in a pay cut for many.

Yeah, I don't disagree with your beliefs that "growth comes largely from profitability" and "one of the great ways to send your stock prices soaring is with profitability." Rather, I don't believe the stock market is "only a representation of the wealthiest of those in the country."

I do believe profitability in normal times would be driving stock prices. Right now it's not. Instead people are obsessed with growth, profits be damned. Tesla is one of the poster boys. The growth stocks are frothy. We're in the middle of the biggest recession since the Great Depression (i.e. profits are down) and the stock market is booming. This will not end well IMHO.

By the way, if you were right about the wealthiest in the country owning most of the stock market, share prices should be plummeting, as they should all be dumping shares so they can pay capital gains tax at 23.8% this year, instead of the 43.4% rate they'll be paying in 2021 after Biden and a Democratic Senate take control. That's 43.4% at the federal level. In California and New York, for example, the state+federal rate will be 53%+.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

It went up because they printed a shit ton of money and Bogdanoff pumped it. Now it's going down because Bogdanoff dumped it. Just need to print more stimulus and keep pumping!