Rounding The Corner

[beelzebubba]

Originally Posted by Strokey_McDingDong

LOL. So you're basically making shit up. "The Science" never claimed locking down would make it go away. "The Science" is still not sure how tf it spreads. It could remain as droplets in the air that you just breathe in when no one is around. Nobody fucking knows.

A total and complete lockdown is not even possible, as essential workers are necessary and people still need to get food. So, you won't be able to achieve the kind of retarded lockdown you're conceiving of.

It’s obvious you are incapable of common sense.
Can you add 1+1?

Funny China can lock down completely.
Can’t be locked down? Won’t maybe
It can and will shut down permanently.
Do the math.
How long can people keep paying taxes with no jobs?
How long can government continue running with no taxes being paid.
It is gonna shut down... just when?
Maybe too late... probably

[reddog1951]

So Unique in response to your claims:

"Typhoid Fever - This is the disease that the "carrier" "typhoid Mary" resulted in court cases where in she ended up in isolation. It's variations of laws enacted since then and other court cases that have resulted in today's laws actively in use for the current Covid.

Only about 350 cases in US annually, not airborne, treatable by antibiotics since it is bacterial, largely effective vaccine available. FALSE

Tuberculosis (since ancient times), well know cases are Edgar Allen Poe and Eleanor Roosevelt.

Maybe 10,000 cases/yr in US for past few years. Treatable with drugs. Mainly controlled by contract tracing and isolation...sound familiar? FALSE

Scarlet fever
I've answered before, look it up. FALSE

Malaria

About 2000 cases/yr in US almost all from foreign travelers. Controllable if mosquitoes controlled. Always wanted to find a case in my 40 yr career, never did. FALSE

Mumps

This virus was essentially eradicated in the US until the anti-vacers stopped immunizing their kids. Maybe 2000 cases/yr now. FALSE

Aids

HIV bad. Once transmission understood,, initially controlled by contact tracing and barrier prevention. Blood borne, not air borne. In my opinion, if it had been air borne, the human race would have been decimated. Seem to be effective treatments available now.

Measles

There are two types, which I won't go into. Very well controlled by vaccine until the anti-vacers surfaced. Maybe 1500 cases in US in 2019. FALSE


Rabies (since ancient ages, in 2010 Indonesia had 130 people die)

Rabies is a BITCH if you get it. Few survivors. Controlled by vaccination (see a theme?) of domestic animals. Rabies vaccine for humans very effective, but if you don't get before or immediately after exposure, you're dead. I'll be generous and give a PARTIAL FALSE. Again, if rabies were airborne, we'd all be fucked.

Bottom line, science indeed has made great progress and will continue to do so. We'd be wise to anticipate and prepare for future threats from not just viruses but other pathogens. Mother nature can be a real bitch at times.

[GastonGlock]

Originally Posted by beelzebubba

It’s obvious you are incapable of common sense.
Can you add 1+1?

Again, to reiterate my point, viruses are not living things we can starve out. This is a naturally occurring phenomenon now. When WHO talks about eradicating viruses like polio, smallpox, sars, mers, they're not talking about extinction like it's a black rhino, they're talking about reducing or eliminating its efficacy.

The only way you do that is though herd immunity via some combination of vaccination and natural exposure.

What lockdowns buy you is a slowing of the spread to keep levels manageable for hospitals. This is less of a worry now that they realize that ventilators are not a very advantageous theraputic. I'm wagering that a majority of COVID-19 cases at this point aren't being hospitalized, but rather are being sent back home for a 2 week quarantine.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

Originally Posted by beelzebubba

It’s obvious you are incapable of common sense.
Can you add 1+1?

Funny China can lock down completely.
Can’t be locked down? Won’t maybe
It can and will shut down permanently.
Do the math.
How long can people keep paying taxes with no jobs?
How long can government continue running with no taxes being paid.
It is gonna shut down... just when?
Maybe too late... probably

How tf does a complete lockdown solve any of those problems?

You can't completely lockdown, anyway, unless you sent the military into every state to weld people's doors shut. According to my Chinese friend, the Chinese people locked down willingly, not by force. I don't believe her, but that's what she claims.

The only thing a lockdown will accomplish is slowing the spread until a vaccine is available, which according to you isn't going to work, anyway. So, a lockdown would be pointless.

[reddog1951]

Glock, you are essentially correct. Smallpox IS considered eliminated thanks to GLOBAL efforts by many agencies, at least some of which are now painted as evil. I am mildly concerned about Smallpox stockpiles still maintained by some governments for "research" purposes. Secondly, I think all you have to do is look at some of the hospitals in Texas to question the accuracy of your last paragraph.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

NO, THERE IS NOT THAT POSSIBILITY! Good God people, how many times must this be explained to you? If you want to quote Biden correctly, say that Biden would mandate masks for all people at the federal level. The President can not order states to mandate mask wearing. Biden said he would "encourage" Governor's to mandate mask wearing. It will be up to Governor's to decide these issues just as it has been from day one when Cuomo told Trump that he did not have the authority to issue such mandates.

To address this one statement:

Biden’s Call for ‘National Mask Mandate’ Gains Traction in Public Health Circles

A presidential order would almost certainly face a legal challenge. But if elected, Joseph R. Biden Jr. would have other levers at his disposal to make mask wearing a cultural norm.

As the nation heads into what public health experts are calling a “dark winter” of coronavirus illness and death, public health experts are coalescing around Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s call for a “national mask mandate,” even as they concede such an effort would require much more than the stroke of a presidential pen.

Over the past week, a string of prominent public health experts — notably Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the government’s top infectious disease specialist, and Dr. Scott Gottlieb, a former commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration under President Trump — have said it is time to seriously consider a national mandate to curb the spread of the virus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/u...k-mandate.html

From September 16, 2020

Biden believes he would have authority to impose national mask mandate as president

Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden said that he believes he would have the legal authority to impose a nationwide mask mandate to slow the spread of coronavirus if elected president, after saying earlier this month that he did not know if such an order would be enforceable.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-m...ate-president/

Joe Biden says legal team thinks mask mandate is constitutional

Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden admitted that while he believes that he would have the legal authority as president to implement a nationwide mask mandate, he “can’t guarantee you that yet.”

Speaking to reporters Wednesday in Wilmington, Del., the former vice president remarked that “there is a question” that he believed “can be answered in the positive” over “whether I can mandate over state lines that every single state has to comply.”

https://nypost.com/2020/09/17/joe-bi...onstitutional/

So Biden has not said he would put forth a mandate to require masks nationwide but he believes he has the right to do so and he states his legal team agrees.

[beelzebubba]

Originally Posted by GastonGlock

Again, to reiterate my point, viruses are not living things we can starve out. This is a naturally occurring phenomenon now. When WHO talks about eradicating viruses like polio, smallpox, sars, mers, they're not talking about extinction like it's a black rhino, they're talking about reducing or eliminating its efficacy.

The only way you do that is though herd immunity via some combination of vaccination and natural exposure.

What lockdowns buy you is a slowing of the spread to keep levels manageable for hospitals. This is less of a worry now that they realize that ventilators are not a very advantageous theraputic. I'm wagering that a majority of COVID-19 cases at this point aren't being hospitalized, but rather are being sent back home for a 2 week quarantine.

Actually viruses require a host... so yes they can be starved out.
That’s why it only remains alive outside the host for a few days.
Am I really having to explain that to you?

You selfish ones can’t starve out a virus, because you’re too busy infecting each other, and innocents around you.

[GastonGlock]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

Glock, you are essentially correct. Smallpox IS considered eliminated thanks to GLOBAL efforts by many agencies, at least some of which are now painted as evil. I am mildly concerned about Smallpox stockpiles still maintained by some governments for "research" purposes. Secondly, I think all you have to do is look at some of the hospitals in Texas to question the accuracy of your last paragraph.

All I have is anecdotal data: My family is in Georgia and everyone's in ending their first week with it, the grandkids brought it home from their week with their dad. He's in shit shape and may end up in the hospital, but otherwise has a daily check in call with a nurse. Both kids are out of school for two weeks until retested, their mom has a fever and a cough and is working from home. Both grandparents have a fever, but no other symptoms and are working from home.

An initial admission to confirm is one thing, hopefully they can rotate people out quickly and efficiently, but I don't imagine they're keeping people who are exhibiting mild symptoms.

[GastonGlock]

Originally Posted by beelzebubba

Actually viruses require a host... so yes they can be starved out.
That’s why it only remains alive outside the host for a few days.
Am I really having to explain that to you?

You selfish ones can’t starve out a virus, because you’re too busy infecting each other.

They require a host to replicate, yes. But they're not particularly alive

[Jacuzzme]

Why is it that Biden supporters are such pussies? A person has about the same chance of dying driving to work as they do of coronavirus, yet I see leftists driving around all the time (they’re the ones with the ‘coexist’ and other idiotic bumper stickers).

It’s the fucking flu. Unless you’re a total lardass, smoke like a chimney, or have one foot in the grave already, you’ll be fine. Now go back to work and worry about more important shit.

[beelzebubba]

I don’t know if there’s any more info, but at one time they were saying covid is not even a virus. That it is a protein strand and not alive.
If true it’s really more of a purposely released biological poison.
Only way to stop it is stop spreading it.

[beelzebubba]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Why is it that Biden supporters are such pussies? A person has about the same chance of dying driving to work as they do of coronavirus, yet I see leftists driving around all the time (they’re the ones with the ‘coexist’ and other idiotic bumper stickers).

It’s the fucking flu. Unless you’re a total lardass, smoke like a chimney, or have one foot in the grave already, you’ll be fine. Now go back to work and worry about more important shit.

False no immune problems, 5’6” 155lbs, don’t smoke, athletic.
It still causes permanent damage to your lungs unless you are lucky, repeat lucky and are asymptomatic or really mild case.
Mine was no worse than the flu.

[GastonGlock]

Originally Posted by beelzebubba

I don’t know if there’s any more info, but at one time they were saying covid is not even a virus. That it is a protein strand and not alive.
If true it’s really more of a purposely released biological poison.

Well that's sort of what a virus is, functionally it's some sort of blob with a bit of fucked RNA inside of it that signals to certain receptors in a cell. Once it attaches, it sends the fucked RNA inside the host cell, where it gets into the nucleus and injects itself into the RNA/DNA encoding process, hijacks the system, and gets the cell to produce more of itself until it self destructs, unleashing a shitload of the newly replicated virus.

Viruses (as far as I'm aware) have no nucleus, no mitchondria, no ribosomes, and are unable to replicate by themselves. By that definition, a lot of people consider them "not alive"

[Strokey_McDingDong]

I don't see how beetle's hyper strict lockdown plan is feasible, but if it were actually possible than sure the virus would hypothetically disappear after an unknown period of time.

They might need to order lockdowns in some areas so that hospitals remain accessible, but a total nationwide Beetle style lockdown is not feasible or logical in my mind.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

I am sure Biden will rely more on input from scientists who are well versed in infectious diseases. He would not rely on people like Dr. Scott Atlas.

And I'll ask again "and do what"? Shutdown the economy again? See how well that is working around the world? Can you not admit that could be the worst thing we could do?

When coronavirus cases in Texas spiked, Abbott shut things down. When cases went down, he relaxed the rules, cases spikes, and he again put restrictions on businesses. I support our leaders, in this case a Republican governor, to make the best decision for us. Sometimes I agree and sometimes I disagree. Many countries that shut down once are shutting down again as the 2nd wave hits. I hope to God that we don't shut down again.


How about this line in Biden's plan.


Quote:
Biden believes we must spend whatever it takes, without delay, to meet public health needs and deal with the mounting economic consequences.

And there will be no consequences to "spending what ever it takes"? What if we spend trillions only to discover that none of the expensive measures makes a difference and our economy is in shatters and we finally have to admit that "herd immunity" was the only effective way to go since 99% of the population will survive. A terrible thought yes, to losing so many hundreds of thousands of people but we lose millions of people to hundreds of diseases that we can not control. Prior to Covid, we seem to have realized that. Did we decide to spend what ever it takes to eradicate the flu? Did we spend what ever it takes to eradicate poverty? Why not? Because money, all the money in the world, sometimes can not solve complex problems so we spend "what we can" not what ever it takes. That is what I call a sound monetary philosophy.

So we should not spend money just in case it doesn't make a difference? The flu is an unfair comparison -- it comes and it quickly goes. We have eradicated several diseases that at one time killed thousands if not millions of people. You are jumping to a conclusion that there is no answer other than to ride it out through herd immunity.


- President Donald Trump brought Dr. Scott Atlas, a vocal anti-lockdown critic, onto his coronavirus task force in August.

I am also an anti-lockdown critic ( shouldn't that actually be proponent? ) and I also believe in wearing masks because it might save a live or two and it ain't that big a deal on a temporary basis IMHO.

A lockdown was a tough choice for those who had to make it. The estimate was about 250,000 would die with a shutdown and 2 million without a shutdown.


- Atlas is a healthcare-policy expert who works at the Hoover Institute, a conservative think tank at Stanford University. He is not an infectious-disease expert.


So he should be silenced? No dissenting opinion allowed? Is that the path forward you want to take? Seriously? We will not longer be allowed to hear anything other than official government orthodoxy?

Certainly all opinions should be listened to. Trump unfortunately likes to surround himself with only those who agree with his opinions. Drs. Fauci and Birx are renowned figures in the field of infectious diseases and have been pushed to the sidelines because they disagree with Trump. Dr. Atlas has little to no expertise but is now Trump's right-hand man on the virus because he says what Trump wants to hear.

- Yet according to reports, Trump is sidelining other public-health experts while hearing Atlas' advice, and not spending money earmarked for a widespread testing program because Atlas is against expanded testing.


So am I. We have expanded testing exponentially and we are seeing more cases and more deaths so were is the evidence that more testing will stop this trend?

More testing will allow us to identify those that might have COVID-19 but be unaware of it and may be putting others in danger.

- Atlas also appears to be worrying top US health experts: CDC Director Robert Redfield was overheard saying "everything" Atlas says "is false," and Fauci said he worried Atlas was giving "incorrect" information to the president.

And you have chosen to believe what you want to believe. I would prefer two or more different opinions and I'll choice what I believe not be limited to hearing one side of the story.

Yes, I tend to more readily accept the opinions of those that are considered experts in a specific field over those that are not, whether it be COVID-19 or anything else. Trump is doing everything possible to downplay the COVID-19 pandemic. We'll wake up one morning and it will be gone. We are rounding the corner. A vaccine is imminent. There won't be a second wave.


I also believe Biden will be more upfront than Trump on the virus. We have not turned any corner. We are not weeks away from having a vaccine available.


Depends on whether we are talking about beginning emergency use which could save lives or general use for millions of people who will either not be infected or not have deadly re-actions.

I said we are not weeks away from having a vaccine available and we are not. The latest from the CDC says that maybe by the end of the year there will be a vaccine available in a quantity "to vaccinate our most vulnerable citizens". By the end of January, enough for all seniors. Then maybe by March or April have it available of everyone who wants it. And that is being optimistic according to the following article, released yesterday.



"It may be time to reset expectations on when we'll get a Covid-19 vaccine

The ambitious drive to produce Covid-19 vaccine at warp speed seems to be running up against reality. We all probably need to reset our expectations about how quickly we’re going to be able to be vaccinated."

https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/29/...id-19-vaccine/