Thank You Tiny and the ECCIE Fiscal Hawks

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

... exactly how does one account for the TRILLIONS of dollars, invested by others, into locating factories into our country, account for in the age of AI? Think very carefully before you respond.

By "others" you mean foreigners, right? That's simple. You can derive the following from the national income identity,

Investment = Trade Deficit + National Saving

Since our government spends out the kazoo, and since a majority of Americans don't know how to save, National Savings aren't enough to fund American investment. But the foreigners have lots of dollars because we run trade deficits with them. And some of those dollars get invested in new factories, machinery, and, yes AI, in the good old USA. That's "investment" in the equation above.

It's a great deal. The Chinese send us clothes, big screen TV's, etc. And we send them paper! Dollars! They invest those dollars in U.S. assets. Some goes into property, plant and equipment. And as to the dollars they recycle into U.S. government securities, if Trump gets his way and lowers and keeps interest rates at 1%, there will be enough inflation with time to make those dollars practically worthless! Poor Chinese chumps. Bahahaha!

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

You only had one, single, solitary job item on the plate - account for AI. Not AI data center construction or the power to run them. Think about the impact AI will have on the many, many jobs out there, particularly, the entry level jobs, at first, and so much higher up the food chain as we go.

Frankly, I'm rather ecstatic the BBB did not raise taxes, i.e. revenue for a never ending government bureaucracy and pocket linings for politicians.

To understand deportations, reconcile paper towels. They exist to clean up the mess of others. There is no need for court processing. They are here illegally, so - Go on! Git! In Texas, Texas, Yee Haw, we have something called home rule. If'n you are in my joint illegally your choice is to Go On, Git or not. There will be no court hearing or process in your lifetime.

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

AI datacenters don’t manufacture anything physical. They create data from data.

The components of these datacenters are rows of rack mounted servers whose parts are primarily manufactured overseas.

However the electrical infrastructure required to supply them might be manufactured here locally. And the fuel to power them might be produced here.

But that really has very little to do with the OBBBA. Spending was not cut nearly enough, Income tax revenues were not raised at all, and a lot of those savings are now being invested into a huge expansion of the immigration system that is almost entirely funding the capture and deportation process but almost none of the court process.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Tiny

By "others" you mean foreigners, right? That's simple. You can derive the following from the national income identity,

Investment = Trade Deficit + National Saving...

Not exclusively. If you invest your time, talent and $$ to create something, I don't necessarily assume you are a foreigner, any more than I assume you have a white hooded robe, still neatly hanging up in your closet.

Regardless, we are one of the few countries on the planet where one can greatly create wealth, with a bit of hard work and determination or insider trading insights, in the case of Nancy Pelosi and other politicians.

Originally Posted by Tiny

The Chinese send us clothes, big screen TV's, etc. And we send them paper! Dollars!...

Or did we export environmental pollution and slave labor to them in exchange for cheap plastic trinkets?!?

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

You only had one, single, solitary job item on the plate - account for AI. Not AI data center construction or the power to run them. Think about the impact AI will have on the many, many jobs out there, particularly, the entry level jobs, at first, and so much higher up the food chain as we go.

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

... exactly how does one account for the TRILLIONS of dollars, invested by others, into locating factories into our country, account for in the age of AI? Think very carefully before you respond.

How do you know that Trillions of dollars are being invested by foreigners in manufacturing and factories in the United States?

According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis new foreign direct investment in equaled 151.0 billion in 2024.

https://www.bea.gov/news/2025/new-fo...ed-states-2024

I have a feeling that the largest foreign investment in America is the large amount of treasury bonds that foreign banks and investors are purchasing.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by RX792P

$300 Billion?

Tariff revenues have been growing for months, and the latest data shows that the U.S. has collected $133.7 billion from them as of Aug. 21 2025.

Long way to go.

Meanwhile
For the current fiscal year 2025, the Bipartisan Policy Center reports a cumulative deficit of $1.6 trillion as of the end of July.

The new tariffs except for part of the iron and steel levies didn't take effect until April or afterwards. That's 3-1/2 months. Annualize your 133.7 and assume most of that was collected since April and you shouldn't have any problem getting to 300 billion. And yes, we're running deficits as a % of GDP of about 6%. $300 billion is only about 1% of GDP, so the tariffs aren't going to come close to getting us to where we need to be.

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

From whom have these $300b supposedly been (or will be) raised. If it’s from consumers that’s a consumption tax which just raises the costs of goods. If it’s from the retailer and wholesalers who eat some of the tariff, then that's a tax on businesses. I thought you Republican types were anti-tax, particularly on businesses. Doesn't that essentially negate the 2017 and 2025 tax reductions on businesses that you, Lusty and TC brag added so much wealth across the board to the economy (though I'd say it made the rich richer and did little for the middle class - but that's a different discussion).

If we were just gonna tax business then we could have simply not lowered their taxes.

The CBO's latest projection is that about $4 trillion will be cut from deficits over the next 10 years by the tariffs, which is about the same as what the CBO estimated the Big Beautiful Bill (BBB) would add to deficits. HOWEVER, please note that if Democrats were in charge, they would have extended a lot of provisions in the BBB. Democrats certainly wouldn't have chosen to rescind the Trump tax cuts for anyone in the upper middle income class on down.

That said, for nth time, the tariffs suck. I agree with your post in Vitaman's thread, that you'd prefer a sales tax because it's transparent and the consumer knows how much he's paying the government. But the big reason is that tariffs reduce the benefits we receive from comparative advantage. There are some things that Mexicans and Chinese and Canadians do a lot better than we do, and there are some things that we're much better at than they are. We're all more prosperous when we do what we do best. You're better off lawyering and letting farmers, ranchers, slaughter houses, food processers, and supermarkets put the food on your table instead of doing it in all in your backyard and basement. The same with countries. We're not going to benefit, as Howard Lutnick says, from screwing screws in iphones.

Based on my insiders, who know their shit, the tariffs are regressive taxation at its worst. For example, the foreign supply chain and the U.S. retailers of upmarket clothing (sold by, say, Victoria's Secret or higher end department stores) have absorbed much of the cost of the tariffs. By lowering their margins, they've been able to avoid raising prices a lot. On the other hand, the foreign suppliers can't drop their prices on what they sell to Walmart, because the margins are so thin. That is, if they drop their prices to try to partially make up for tariffs they lose money. Walmart's margins suck too. They make their money on volume. So Walmart can't absorb the tariffs either. Who bears the cost increase? Like you said, the consumer. The Walmart shopper. The people who can least afford to pay higher prices.

You have not however caught me in a gotcha moment. Like I've said repeatedly, the problem is our inefficient federal government spends too much money. When you raise taxes and feed the beast in Washington D.C., you lower GDP growth and you hurt the workingman, the businesses, the investors, and the taxpayers. We need to cut federal expenditures across the board, 8% or whatever. That's the best solution. Let the states and the localities take up any slack. They're much more efficient than the bozos in D.C.

And if you want to raise the federal corporate tax rate back to 35%, where it was before 2018, you're way out of the Democratic Party mainstream. Only people like Sanders and Warren want to do that, because the sane Democrats realize it would be plain stupid. Like you say, that's for another thread, along with your mistaken belief that upper income earners are undertaxed. This thread is about ME and the eccie fiscal hawks.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Or did we export environmental pollution and slave labor to them in exchange for cheap plastic trinkets?!?

And what's wrong with that?

Seriously, what you're calling "slave labor" are great jobs in many countries. Billions have risen from abject poverty because of capitalism and trade.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

...According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis new foreign direct investment in equaled 151.0 billion in 2024...

Thankfully, the year 2024 is behind us.
We are transitioning from the Gas lighting age to the Golden age.

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

...I have a feeling that the largest foreign investment in America is the large amount of treasury bonds that foreign banks and investors are purchasing.

People, businesses and countries put their $$ where they think it's safe and able to produce a good return.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Tiny

...Billions have risen from abject poverty because of capitalism and trade.

All's ya gotta do is label them as terrorists and it's Saul Goodman.

Who are the Uyghurs and why is China being accused of genocide?

...Human rights groups believe China has detained more than one million Uyghurs against their will over the past few years in a large network of what the state calls "re-education camps", and sentenced hundreds of thousands to prison terms.

A series of police files obtained by the BBC in 2022 has revealed details of China's use of these camps and described the routine use of armed officers and the existence of a shoot-to-kill policy for those trying to escape.

The US is among several countries to have previously accused China of committing genocide in Xinjiang. The leading human rights groups Amnesty and Human Rights Watch have published reports accusing China of crimes against humanity.

China denies all allegations of human rights abuses in Xinjiang. The Chinese government - speaking after details of the Xinjiang Police Files were published - said the peace and prosperity brought to Xinjiang as a result of its anti-terrorism measures were the best response to "all sorts of lies"...

Democrats seem like terrorists these days. Maybe China is on to something.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Pretty danged good discussion going here, aside from the occasional (cough-cough) political sniping. Taking inspiration from the below quote trying to explain a Trillion second, allow me to explain US $1 Billion in simplistic terms. So, let's talk about real numbers for the common Man/Women/<No! There is no 3rd option> in real numbers.

I have decided that there are about 200 Million taxpayers in the US, based partly on voting numbers in 2024 and a few other "fuzzy" factors, like booting out minor league tax payers, etc. Plus it makes the math easier to digest and relate to individual taxpayers.

Every time you hear of the "government" spending $1 Billion, divide that by 200 Million = $5, per taxpayer. It is a tax, aka non-tax deductible contribution to someone, somewhere, somehow. You have no real say to whence it goes. That should make it easier to digest/calculate what US $1Trillion means to each taxpayer.

Originally Posted by orallvr69

...Does anyone know what a trillion is? Lets demo it by time:
one million seconds is about 11.5 days
one billion seconds is about 32 years
Here's the big one.
one trillion seconds is 31,689 years..

Hope that helps.