More Racist White Folks in the GOP

[Precious_b]

That "historical" angle is the one maggies like to cling to. Like blaming stuff on a guy who hasn't been in office for decades.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Turner2099

What did you ask ChatGPT? Labor-market discrimination is only a small part of systemic racism, not equal to it. I brought up systemic racism to help explain not only poverty, but also the high homicide rate by Blacks. Murder is not caused solely by income disparity.

The wealth gap is only a piece of systemic racism. What's also included are issues like criminal justice, housing, and healthcare, for example.

What about Critical Race Theory? CRT is not equal to systemic racism.

Sticking with income disparity and leaving out CRT, I asked Claude.AI, "How much does systemic racism impact Black income inequality?"

I am just going to include a synthesis of the response here, but I saved the entirety if you want to see it. I believe the results warrant including systemic racism in discussions, especially considering systemic racism involves more than a difference in income levels.

You're a smart guy Turner. You have so much potential. Please drag yourself away from MSNBC and put on your thinking cap.

My initial question was, "The income of blacks in the USA is lower on average than non-Hispanic whites. Which determinants are primarily to blame, for example, quality of schools, education level, systemic racism, neighborhood, parents in household, etc." I followed that with, "Show the list in order of importance." She replied with the following "Approximate ranking of determinants of the Black–White income gap."

1. Family background/parental wealth & resources
2. Education attainment & academic preparation
3. Neighborhood/geography effects
4. Occupation/industry distribution
5. Labor market discrimination/systemic racism
6. Entrepreneurship/access to capital
7. Field of study / college major
8. Other factors (health, incarceration, networks, etc.)

Finally in response to your post I asked, "When you say “labor market discrimination/ systemic racism” do you mean the combined effects of both?"

She said, "Yes. In the scorecard I gave earlier, “labor-market discrimination / systemic racism” was meant as a combined category, not two separate quantified items. Researchers often group them together because they are empirically difficult to separate, and they operate through related mechanisms."

She went on to elaborate on labor market discrimination and systemic racism:

Labor-market discrimination (direct or individual discrimination)

This refers to differences in treatment of workers in the labor market, such as:

Hiring discrimination (resume experiments show different callback rates for identical resumes with different names)
Pay differences for similar roles
Promotion differences
Higher job loss or unemployment risk
Differences in performance evaluations

These effects happen within firms or hiring processes.

Systemic / structural racism

This refers to broader institutional or historical structures that influence economic outcomes, including things like:

Residential segregation
School funding disparities
Historical housing policies (e.g., redlining)
Differences in access to credit
Criminal justice system impacts
Network and social capital differences

These mechanisms often operate before someone even enters the labor market.

To tie this all together -- blaming income disparities between blacks and non-Hispanic whites on racism among Republicans doesn't make much sense. Unless you're a Democratic Party insider or make money advertising to a riled up Democratic Party base.

I have no idea what CRT is, except that it's a construct of lawyers and philosophers, not social scientists and statisticians. As such it must not be worth the mental bandwidth to understand it.

[Turner2099]

Originally Posted by Tiny

You're a smart guy Turner. You have so much potential. Please drag yourself away from MSNBC and put on your thinking cap.

My initial question was, "The income of blacks in the USA is lower on average than non-Hispanic whites. Which determinants are primarily to blame, for example, quality of schools, education level, systemic racism, neighborhood, parents in household, etc." I followed that with, "Show the list in order of importance." She replied with the following "Approximate ranking of determinants of the Black–White income gap."

1. Family background/parental wealth & resources
2. Education attainment & academic preparation
3. Neighborhood/geography effects
4. Occupation/industry distribution
5. Labor market discrimination/systemic racism
6. Entrepreneurship/access to capital
7. Field of study / college major
8. Other factors (health, incarceration, networks, etc.)

Finally in response to your post I asked, "When you say “labor market discrimination/ systemic racism” do you mean the combined effects of both?"

She said, "Yes. In the scorecard I gave earlier, “labor-market discrimination / systemic racism” was meant as a combined category, not two separate quantified items. Researchers often group them together because they are empirically difficult to separate, and they operate through related mechanisms."

She went on to elaborate on labor market discrimination and systemic racism:

Labor-market discrimination (direct or individual discrimination)

This refers to differences in treatment of workers in the labor market, such as:

Hiring discrimination (resume experiments show different callback rates for identical resumes with different names)
Pay differences for similar roles
Promotion differences
Higher job loss or unemployment risk
Differences in performance evaluations

These effects happen within firms or hiring processes.

Systemic / structural racism

This refers to broader institutional or historical structures that influence economic outcomes, including things like:

Residential segregation
School funding disparities
Historical housing policies (e.g., redlining)
Differences in access to credit
Criminal justice system impacts
Network and social capital differences

These mechanisms often operate before someone even enters the labor market.

To tie this all together -- blaming income disparities between blacks and non-Hispanic whites on racism among Republicans doesn't make much sense. Unless you're a Democratic Party insider or make money advertising to a riled up Democratic Party base.

I have no idea what CRT is, except that it's a construct of lawyers and philosophers, not social scientists and statisticians. As such it must not be worth the mental bandwidth to understand it.

I actually don't watch MSNBC (MS NOW). I don't even have cable and haven't in years.

You should give Claude.AI a try and see what you think. I bounce around different versions of AI, but I tend to use Claude the most.

I think you confused ChatGPT by including facets of systemic racism along with systemic racism in your question, so when it ranked them for you, it ended up ranking items that are impacted or created by system racism. Combining labor-market discrimination with system racism as a category is a good example. Labor-market discrimination is an outcome of systemic racism, which ChatGPT actually alludes to further down in your post.

"Systemic racism (also called structural or institutional racism) refers to the idea that racial inequality can be embedded in laws, institutions, policies, and social norms — producing racially disparate outcomes even without requiring individual racist intent. The argument is that systems can perpetuate disadvantage for certain racial groups through their ordinary operation."

The problem goes beyond just income disparity. Medicine is good example---there are disparities in Black healthcare that occur regardless of income level.

Our society is made up of more than Democrats and Republicans and I think it's more important to identify and address the root causes of systemic racism rather than lay partisan blame. The root causes do need to called out when identified, though. That is extremely important.

My point in all of this is to illustrate the need to discuss systemic racism and by extension, Critical Race Theory.

While CRT may have it's roots in academia, social scientists use it "to explain social, political, and legal structures and power distribution as through a 'lens' focusing on the concept of race, and experiences of racism."

A serious problem we face is that the current administration will not discuss these issues. Colleges and universities are foundational to research and Trump has pledged to defund them if they teach CRT or anything about systemic racism.

Don't knock philosophers---Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas made great contributions to science. ; )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic...ory%20outcomes.

[CPT Savajo]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

No fathers in the home is the major driver.

That seems to be a major factor from all the troubled youth I've seen meaning every kid in such a situation regardless of ethnicity.

[CPT Savajo]

Originally Posted by Turner2099

You never talk numbers. In 2019, black people killed 320 more white people than white people killed black people. I am in no way making excuses for murder, but that's a statistically low number. It's 3.2% of all murders committed that year. Yes, black people committed the most murders in 2019, but that means that logically, the number of white people murdered would also be higher.



Good question. Another question is, does systemic racism have anything to do with this?

You say Republicans aren't racist, but one of your arguments involves pointing out race.

Republicans won't discuss systemic racism. They even forbid teaching the idea in public schools.

Trump has threatened to cut funding to colleges and universities if they discuss it. Colleges and universities are foundational to our country's research into just about everything.

How do you suggest we go about answering your question?

With black people killing more white people in America today including past consecutive years going back decades the Democrats can't use the fake narrative that we have a white supremacy problem in America. But if more white people were murdering more black people year over year in America, which they're not, then what the Democrats say may have some inkling of merit.

Systemic racism is a representation of the Democrat Party, the Party of the KKK, BLM, and Antifa. President Trump should cut off funding to Universities and Colleges pushing propaganda down the throats of young minds when it comes to teaching Critical Race Theory in schools. The most racist people in America that I've encountered are white people and black people without question. Racists don't represent the whole of both ethnicities but they damn sure do exist. Note I am not white nor black.

Turner it seems like you've been indoctrinated to accept and support racist ideoloy with your support of Critical Race Theory being taught in Democrat/Communist American-led states and cities.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

No fathers in the home is the major driver. Study after study confirms their importance and the increased negative outcomes of single parent homes. Take a look at The Moynihan Report, penned in 1965 that accurately predicted what would happen if the problem wasn’t addressed.

Originally Posted by CPT Savajo

That seems to be a major factor from all the troubled youth I've seen meaning every kid in such a situation regardless of ethnicity.

Single parent homes are a factor. But they aren't the "major driver."

The driver is poverty. Generational poverty that has gone on 200+ years. No property. No assets. No opportunity. No support structure. ALL driven by poverty.

All of it.

Including the single-parent problem.

Don't give me this "it ain't hard to get out of poverty" bullshit again either. It is extremely hard. Impossible for many. None of you have the slightest clue. Truly, you don't.

.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Turner2099

You should give Claude.AI a try and see what you think. I bounce around different versions of AI, but I tend to use Claude the most.

I think you confused ChatGPT by including facets of systemic racism along with systemic racism in your question, so when it ranked them for you, it ended up ranking items that are impacted or created by system racism. Combining labor-market discrimination with system racism as a category is a good example. Labor-market discrimination is an outcome of systemic racism, which ChatGPT actually alludes to further down in your post.

Nice try Turner! I knew you'd be a tough nut to crack when you didn't back down from the belief that there are a lot more Democrats than Republicans in Texas. But I haven't given up yet!

I have the $200/month Pro subscription with ChatGPT which gives me 250 deep research questions a month, so I usually default to it. I like Gemini too, and Perplexity is a distant third. I will give Claude a try, thanks.

Originally Posted by Turner2099

"Systemic racism (also called structural or institutional racism) refers to the idea that racial inequality can be embedded in laws, institutions, policies, and social norms — producing racially disparate outcomes even without requiring individual racist intent. The argument is that systems can perpetuate disadvantage for certain racial groups through their ordinary operation."

The problem goes beyond just income disparity. Medicine is good example---there are disparities in Black healthcare that occur regardless of income level.

Our society is made up of more than Democrats and Republicans and I think it's more important to identify and address the root causes of systemic racism rather than lay partisan blame. The root causes do need to called out when identified, though. That is extremely important.

My point in all of this is to illustrate the need to discuss systemic racism and by extension, Critical Race Theory.

While CRT may have it's roots in academia, social scientists use it "to explain social, political, and legal structures and power distribution as through a 'lens' focusing on the concept of race, and experiences of racism."

A serious problem we face is that the current administration will not discuss these issues. Colleges and universities are foundational to research and Trump has pledged to defund them if they teach CRT or anything about systemic racism.

Don't knock philosophers---Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas made great contributions to science. ; )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic...ory%20outcomes.

As Blackman and others showed in this thread, all racists are Republicans. Since racism accounts for higher poverty and homicide rates and poorer healthcare outcomes among blacks, it's all the Republicans' fault. But none of this is true.

Perhaps a parable would help. In this parable you can equate Puritans' religious beliefs with critical race theory.

Salem, Massachusetts is visited by plague (poor healthcare outcomes), pestilence (homicides) and drought (poverty.) Now what the Puritans should have done is pass out antibiotics and insecticides and install irrigation. But naah, instead they figure their problems are best solved by a good witch burning! So they round up the usual suspects and try to drown them. If one of them doesn't drown, then they burn her at the stake, because she must be a Republican. Sorry, a witch.

From your link, "Academic critics of CRT argue it is based on storytelling instead of evidence and reason, rejects truth and merit, and undervalues liberalism."

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by rooster

Single parent homes are a factor. But they aren't the "major driver."

The driver is poverty. Generational poverty that has gone on 200+ years. No property. No assets. No opportunity. No support structure. ALL driven by poverty.

All of it.

Including the single-parent problem.

Don't give me this "it ain't hard to get out of poverty" bullshit again either. It is extremely hard. Impossible for many. None of you have the slightest clue. Truly, you don't.

.

IMO you're a lot closer to the truth than most other posters in this thread Rooster. You posted something similar about homicide rates in another thread. It's still more complicated though, and, as you seem to agree, Jacuzzme's and the Captain's observations about single parent families are a big part of the problem too.

I haven't got time to dig it up right now, but there's an interesting paper where an academician looks at homicide rates in countries that suffer from legacies of slavery and "colonialism gone wild." By the later, I mean for example certain Latin American countries where the Spaniards treated indigenous people as badly as the other Europeans treated slaves in Brazil and the Caribbean.

The homicide rates are higher in those countries. This applies to Africa as well. Countries with legacies of slavery have much higher homicide rates.

So in the western hemisphere you can blame this single aspect of the bigger picture on white men, who lived hundreds of years ago. Saying modern day Republicans are the descendants of the slave traders and slave owners and therefore responsible would obviously be quite a stretch though.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by rooster

Single parent homes are a factor. But they aren't the "major driver."

The driver is poverty. Generational poverty that has gone on 200+ years. No property. No assets. No opportunity. No support structure. ALL driven by poverty.

All of it.

Including the single-parent problem.

Don't give me this "it ain't hard to get out of poverty" bullshit again either. It is extremely hard. Impossible for many. None of you have the slightest clue. Truly, you don't.

.

Originally Posted by Tiny

IMO you're a lot closer to the truth than most other posters in this thread Rooster. You posted something similar about homicide rates in another thread. It's still more complicated though, and, as you seem to agree, Jacuzzme's and the Captain's observations about single parent families are a big part of the problem too.

I haven't got time to dig it up right now, but there's an interesting paper where an academician looks at homicide rates in countries that suffer from legacies of slavery and "colonialism gone wild." By the later, I mean for example certain Latin American countries where the Spaniards treated indigenous people as badly as the other Europeans treated slaves in Brazil and the Caribbean.

The homicide rates are higher in those countries. This applies to Africa as well. Countries with legacies of slavery have much higher homicide rates.

So in the western hemisphere you can blame this single aspect of the bigger picture on white men, who lived hundreds of years ago. Saying modern day Republicans are the descendants of the slave traders and slave owners and therefore responsible would obviously be quite a stretch though.

I hope you aren't implying... that I implied... the idea highlighted in the last sentence. Because it is not accurate. My main point is that I don't think people who have never lived in generational poverty understand the true disadvantages that result from it. The cards are profoundly against you.

Neither do those who did NOT grow up in these conditions understand the advantages that they have. You most often hear that expressed in the naive ideas that "you just have to work hard" to rise above it all. It is much, much more complicated than that.

.

[Jacuzzme]

It’s really not. Graduate high school > work > marry > have kids > stay married. Do those simple things, in that order, and there’s a 97% chance you’ll lead a reasonably comfortable middle class life. I’d add to start saving in high school, to take full advantage of the power of compound interest and have a bitchin retirement with a legacy for the kids.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by rooster

I hope you aren't implying... that I implied... the idea highlighted in the last sentence. Because it is not accurate. My main point is that I don't think people who have never lived in generational poverty understand the true disadvantages that result from it. The cards are profoundly against you.

Neither do those who did NOT grow up in these conditions understand the advantages that they have. You most often hear that expressed in the naive ideas that "you just have to work hard" to rise above it all. It is much, much more complicated than that.

.

I'm certainly not implying that Rooster. I'm trying to stay on topic with the OP, racist Republicans.

To add to what you said, people need to get the hell out of the hood. Where you have concentrated disadvantage - a neighborhood with very high poverty and unemployment rates, suck ass schools, broken families and sometimes gang and **** activity, it's hard to escape.

This is something that I think enlightened city and state government could do a lot to fix, or at least alleviate.

An interesting statistic, in cities in the USA, just 6% of street segments (both sides of a street between two intersections) account for about 60% of crime. One percent accounts for 20% to 25%.

Jacuzzme is right:

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

It’s really not. Graduate high school > work > marry > have kids > stay married. Do those simple things, in that order, and there’s a 97% chance you’ll lead a reasonably comfortable middle class life. I’d add to start saving in high school, to take full advantage of the power of compound interest and have a bitchin retirement with a legacy for the kids.

That's a lot harder to do if you live in the wrong zip code though.

[Turner2099]

Originally Posted by CPT Savajo

With black people killing more white people in America today including past consecutive years going back decades the Democrats can't use the fake narrative that we have a white supremacy problem in America. But if more white people were murdering more black people year over year in America, which they're not, then what the Democrats say may have some inkling of merit.

Systemic racism is a representation of the Democrat Party, the Party of the KKK, BLM, and Antifa. President Trump should cut off funding to Universities and Colleges pushing propaganda down the throats of young minds when it comes to teaching Critical Race Theory in schools. The most racist people in America that I've encountered are white people and black people without question. Racists don't represent the whole of both ethnicities but they damn sure do exist. Note I am not white nor black.

Turner it seems like you've been indoctrinated to accept and support racist ideoloy with your support of Critical Race Theory being taught in Democrat/Communist American-led states and cities.

I certainly wasn't trying to say that Republicans as a whole are racist. I was trying to point out that your argument defending Republicans hinged upon calling out negative aspects of blacks, which you then seemed to double-down on. Does that mean because you seem to think blacks are inherently murderous towards white people, Republicans aren't racist?

Again, I am not arguing that Republicans are racist, I am trying to interpret your argument that they aren't. It's not the same thing.

All murder is a problem, but you make it sound like blacks killing whites is an almost existential problem. Context is very important here, but you never provide data.

The following information is from the 2019 FBI Uniform Crime Reports:

White killed by Black offender: 566
Population at Risk: ~197 million
Odds of being killed by a black person: 1 in 384,000 or 0.0003%

Black killed by White offender: 246
Population at Risk: ~41 million
Odds of being killed by a white person: 1 in 167,000 or 0.0006%

To add some perspective, the odds of dying in car accident are 1 in 9,084 or 0.01%.

--In absolute numbers, more white people were killed by Black offenders than vice versa.

--However, on a per capita basis, Black Americans faced roughly twice the risk of being killed by a white offender compared to the reverse, largely because the Black population is about 1/5 the size of the white population.

--Both probabilities are very small in absolute terms — well under 1 in 100,000 for both groups.

--The dominant pattern in both cases is intraracial homicide — most victims of any race are killed by someone of the same race.

You did help defend my statement that Republicans won't discuss systemic racism when you state that it's a representation of the Democrat Party and call it a day. You even helped me more by dismissing Critical Race Theory as propaganda without providing any reason why it's propaganda.

I do like how you throw the KKK and BLM into the same political party, though.

If systemic racism, and by extension, Critical Race Theory, is a representation of the Democrat Party, and by the gist of your argument, false, wouldn't it benefit the Republican Party to disprove it through education?

--Ignorance is simply the state of lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular subject.

--Ignorance is not stupidity — it refers to missing information, not lack of intelligence. Everyone is ignorant about something.

--Ignorance is not willful by definition — though "willful ignorance" (deliberately avoiding knowledge) is a specific subcategory

--Ignorance is correctable — through education, exposure, and data

I don't know why, but you highlight that most racists you've met are black and white and that racism exists. Combined, blacks and whites make up 72% of the US population, so you would expect to find most racists within this combined group. Also, I can't recall anyone, including in this thread, arguing that racism doesn't exist.

The reality is that racism exists in all political parties and it would be naive to think otherwise.

Systemic racism isn't about individual racism. I pointed out medicine in another comment as a good example. Why do blacks have worse healthcare outcomes than other groups, regardless of income levels or geography? That isn't theory--it's demonstrable.

You write that I "support racist ideology with <my> support of Critical Race Theory being taught in Democrat/Communist American-led states and cities." It's difficult to prove a negative, but I am pretty sure I'm not prejudiced against white people.

I also never promoted teaching CRT in Democrat-led states and cities. I promoted not forbidding its teaching at the University and college level, where research occurs. It' not a playbook and like anything else of merit, should be analyzed for any benefits it can provide. It has it's critics, which is fair, and that criticism should be discussed.

Dems are bad and communist, Black men are bad, immigrants are bad, Mamdani is bad, etc. You seem to write in terms of "us vs. them", which is trait of far-right ideology, yet you call me indoctrinated. You've used The Gateway Pundit as a reference, for goodness sake. Extremism in any form is bad.

You never did answer my main question, which was how would you answer your own question, "What is wrong with young black men in America?"

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Turner2099

I certainly wasn't trying to say that Republicans as a whole are racist. I was trying to point out that your argument defending Republicans hinged upon calling out negative aspects of blacks, which you then seemed to double-down on. Does that mean because you seem to think blacks are inherently murderous towards white people, Republicans aren't racist?

Again, I am not arguing that Republicans are racist, I am trying to interpret your argument that they aren't. It's not the same thing.

All murder is a problem, but you make it sound like blacks killing whites is an almost existential problem. Context is very important here, but you never provide data.

The following information is from the 2019 FBI Uniform Crime Reports:

White killed by Black offender: 566
Population at Risk: ~197 million
Odds of being killed by a black person: 1 in 384,000 or 0.0003%

Black killed by White offender: 246
Population at Risk: ~41 million
Odds of being killed by a white person: 1 in 167,000 or 0.0006%

To add some perspective, the odds of dying in car accident are 1 in 9,084 or 0.01%.

--In absolute numbers, more white people were killed by Black offenders than vice versa.

--However, on a per capita basis, Black Americans faced roughly twice the risk of being killed by a white offender compared to the reverse, largely because the Black population is about 1/5 the size of the white population.

--Both probabilities are very small in absolute terms — well under 1 in 100,000 for both groups.

--The dominant pattern in both cases is intraracial homicide — most victims of any race are killed by someone of the same race.

You did help defend my statement that Republicans won't discuss systemic racism when you state that it's a representation of the Democrat Party and call it a day. You even helped me more by dismissing Critical Race Theory as propaganda without providing any reason why it's propaganda.

I do like how you throw the KKK and BLM into the same political party, though.

If systemic racism, and by extension, Critical Race Theory, is a representation of the Democrat Party, and by the gist of your argument, false, wouldn't it benefit the Republican Party to disprove it through education?

--Ignorance is simply the state of lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular subject.

--Ignorance is not stupidity — it refers to missing information, not lack of intelligence. Everyone is ignorant about something.

--Ignorance is not willful by definition — though "willful ignorance" (deliberately avoiding knowledge) is a specific subcategory

--Ignorance is correctable — through education, exposure, and data

I don't know why, but you highlight that most racists you've met are black and white and that racism exists. Combined, blacks and whites make up 72% of the US population, so you would expect to find most racists within this combined group. Also, I can't recall anyone, including in this thread, arguing that racism doesn't exist.

The reality is that racism exists in all political parties and it would be naive to think otherwise.

Systemic racism isn't about individual racism. I pointed out medicine in another comment as a good example. Why do blacks have worse healthcare outcomes than other groups, regardless of income levels or geography? That isn't theory--it's demonstrable.

You write that I "support racist ideology with <my> support of Critical Race Theory being taught in Democrat/Communist American-led states and cities." It's difficult to prove a negative, but I am pretty sure I'm not prejudiced against white people.

I also never promoted teaching CRT in Democrat-led states and cities. I promoted not forbidding its teaching at the University and college level, where research occurs. It' not a playbook and like anything else of merit, should be analyzed for any benefits it can provide. It has it's critics, which is fair, and that criticism should be discussed.

Dems are bad and communist, Black men are bad, immigrants are bad, Mamdani is bad, etc. You seem to write in terms of "us vs. them", which is trait of far-right ideology, yet you call me indoctrinated. You've used The Gateway Pundit as a reference, for goodness sake. Extremism in any form is bad.

You never did answer my main question, which was how would you answer your own question, "What is wrong with young black men in America?"

Duh. There are a lot fewer blacks in America than whites. Taking your faulty reasoning to an extreme, if you had 100,000 blacks in America and 200 million whites, then the odds of a black person being killed by a white person would be off the charts high compared to the reverse.

From your numbers you apparently don't understand "Whites" in the FBI table include most Hispanics. The 197 million number you used is the population of non-Hispanic whites. But that's neither here nor there.

If you define "white" as including Hispanic whites, then the there are 1.1 blacks per million whites killed annually by whites:

246/228,000,000 x 1,000,000 = 1.1

And there are 13.8 whites per million blacks killed annually by blacks:

566/41,000,000 x 1,000,000 = 13.8

So it looks like blacks kill whites at a rate 13X higher adjusted for relative populations.

And yeah, you're right, this is inconsequential, 566 white deaths per year, relative to the lost years suffered by blacks as a result of poor healthcare outcomes and incarceration.

I'm out of here. I'm burning too much time in this thread and I haven't got any converts. I had my hopes up with you Turner, but I'm throwing in the towel.

FBI statistics from 2019 we both were using:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ta-table-6.xls

[Turner2099]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Nice try Turner! I knew you'd be a tough nut to crack when you didn't back down from the belief that there are a lot more Democrats than Republicans in Texas. But I haven't given up yet!

I have the $200/month Pro subscription with ChatGPT which gives me 250 deep research questions a month, so I usually default to it. I like Gemini too, and Perplexity is a distant third. I will give Claude a try, thanks.


As Blackman and others showed in this thread, all racists are Republicans. Since racism accounts for higher poverty and homicide rates and poorer healthcare outcomes among blacks, it's all the Republicans' fault. But none of this is true.

Perhaps a parable would help. In this parable you can equate Puritans' religious beliefs with critical race theory.

Salem, Massachusetts is visited by plague (poor healthcare outcomes), pestilence (homicides) and drought (poverty.) Now what the Puritans should have done is pass out antibiotics and insecticides and install irrigation. But naah, instead they figure their problems are best solved by a good witch burning! So they round up the usual suspects and try to drown them. If one of them doesn't drown, then they burn her at the stake, because she must be a Republican. Sorry, a witch.

From your link, "Academic critics of CRT argue it is based on storytelling instead of evidence and reason, rejects truth and merit, and undervalues liberalism."

I have to stress that I make a huge distinction between the racism referenced in this thread and systemic racism and I am not calling Republicans blanketly racist, by any means.

Doctor's all take vows to do no harm and I would like to think they lean more altruistic, so I don't see them consciously working against the health of black people because the doctors are racist. Statistics illustrate there is a real problem with health outcomes, though. There is something more going on.

Research shows that blacks get less callbacks on resumes due to their names. I don't think this means that the recruiters are all a bunch of racists, though. Again, there's something more going on.

Sure, Critcal Race Theory has its critics and that's ok--it really is a theory after all and should be discussed. If it doesn't hold up to honest debate, then it shouldn't be supported. That debate should happen in an academic setting, though, not a political one.

Systemic racism is foundational to CRT, but the difference is that systemic racism isn't a theory.

Systemic racism as a description of measurable racial disparities across institutions is well-supported by evidence. Systemic racism as a complete explanatory theory for all racial outcome gaps is more contested. The strongest evidence comes from controlled studies that isolate race as a variable — and those consistently show discrimination is real and ongoing. The debate is really about magnitude and causation, not whether racial disparities exist at all.

Vilifying anyone is not the goal that I see in play here. Exploring the issues and trying to determine how to eliminate documented disparities is the goal.

Trump, and by extension Republicans that enable him, is actively preventing research into systemic racism.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by rooster

....
Neither do those who did NOT grow up in these conditions understand the advantages that they have. You most often hear that expressed in the naive ideas that "you just have to work hard" to rise above it all. It is much, much more complicated than that.
.

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

It’s really not. Graduate high school > work > marry > have kids > stay married. Do those simple things, in that order, and there’s a 97% chance you’ll lead a reasonably comfortable middle class life. I’d add to start saving in high school, to take full advantage of the power of compound interest and have a bitchin retirement with a legacy for the kids.

Whatta surprise that you would disagree. You and I have been here before. I say again...you just don't get it. You truly do not.

I don't know your background. But unless you are willing to come out with personal detail telling me about your experiences growing up in a racially segregated environment in true generational poverty...and I'm not challenging you to do so....I stand firmly by what I say.

Again, I'm not challenging you to talk about RL. But I'll show you mine if you show me yours. It's probably best if we just continue to say we don't agree.

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