Remember this when the shutdown occurs

[CuteOldGuy]

It's not necessarily ideological to insist that the government quit doing what the Constitution does not authorize, such as NPR, Planned Parenthood, etc.

I love NPR, but I really think they could survive without government funding. We have to get over this notion that government can, and must, do everything.

[Longermonger]

Originally Posted by Starry69

The Republicans got the cuts they asked for. This "shut down" was apparently about items such as defunding NPR, planned parenthood, and removing EPA oversight from coal mining.

As far as spending goes, those are pretty minor issues.

Early on the tea baggers insisted they weren't about social issues. Now their true agenda is coming to the fore now.

Agreed!

If Republicans were serious about reducing the debt, they'd propose tax increases along with spending cuts. At least modest tax increases, right? Nope. They balked at even letting the taxes for the upper 2% increase by a few percent just a few months ago.

Why even bother to call them Republicans anymore? They should be called the Corporate Whores Party!

[Starry69]

We have to get over this notion that government can, and must, do everything.

NPR and Planned parenthood are strictly political issues driven by ideology, IMO.

Concerning the Constitution, remember when Lake Erie caught fire? I'm probably dating myself but it did happen.

Without the EPA and government oversight on pollution this country would probably not be such a nice place to live. But it's not in the constitution.

The infrastructure that has enabled this country to be great was primarily sponsored by the government. And there is no constitutional basis for it.

On a side note, much of the infrastructure is crumbling now. Who is going to rebuild or maintain it if not for the government? Where is the money going to come from?

The government is a necessary evil. And the greatness our country has enjoyed is at least partially due to the things our government has done that are not authorized by the constitution.

[john_galt]

I remember when Erie caught fire along with a few rivers but the EPA needs more oversight. When Nixon created the EPA he installed William Ruckleshaus as the director. Before that, and during his tenure, Ruckleshaus was member of a radical organization that believed in zero population growth by attrition. One of the first things done by the EPA was the banning of DDT. Six months of testimony in front of Judge Sweeney resulted in a finding of nothing wrong with DDT when used as directed. This report was given over to Ruckleshaus, who never attended one day of testimony, who condensed it from 134 pages to 36 pages which said "DDT BAD". Since the ban 12 million people have died from malaria which up to 1970 was in decline world wide. Most of those people (85%) were from Africa and of those (90%) where under the age of eight years old. This is the legacy of the United States and the EPA.

[CuteOldGuy]

Starry, do you mean to say that there are no mechanisms to control pollution outside the federal government? Are there no mechanisms to build or repair infrastructure outside the federal government? Boy, without the federal government, we'd have nothing! How wonderful for us that are leaders don't feel constrained by the Law of the Land! Damned Constitution anyway! Just gets in the way. Our Founders, what a bunch of morons!

Or maybe, just maybe, we could look at the ninth and tenth amendments to the Constitution and assign the responsibility for those wonderful programs where they belong.

We could have a wonderful country even if we followed the Constitution. And you know what, if there is something we the people want the federal government to do that isn't in the Constitution, we can amend it! Or repeal amendments. It's really cool if we would follow it!

[Sarge]

Even though it didn't happen due to some 11th hour negotiating, one factor that wasn't mentioned here is a huge glaring oversight. If the government had actually shut down, members of Congress would still continue to draw their $174K salaries but the troops that are putting their lives on the line wouldn't get paid on time.

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said on Wednesday:

• if the government shuts down on April 8 and goes for a week, service members would get half of a check on April 15 (pay from the April 1 – 8)
• if the shutdown runs past April 15, service members would receive pay after the budget or a Continuing Resolution is passed.

[Starry69]

Starry, do you mean to say that there are no mechanisms to control pollution outside the federal government? Are there no mechanisms to build or repair infrastructure outside the federal government? Boy, without the federal government, we'd have nothing!

I would say without the federal government the mechanisms for controlling pollution and repairing infrastructure are very weak.

Can those jobs be turned over to the states? Perhaps. Probably with mixed results, and certainly with inconsistent results. Yeah, I know, we already get mixed and inconsistent results from Federal regulation.

As distasteful as it might be, the reality is that the federal government is the only entity large enough to fund some ventures.

NASA (considered wasteful now, with cause), going to the moon, the interstate highway system, the power grid, etc.

Suppose Kansas built I-70 across the state but Missouri and Colorado said "Nah."

It's just not as simple as saying "Let the states do it all."

[john_galt]

You're mixing your apples and your oranges. I don't find NASA, with a pitifully small budget, not to be a waste. The interstate highway system was part of a defense project for logistics support for our military. The politicians made it a screwed up mess around the cities.