Why Not Progressive Conservatism?

[Lucas McCain]

If he has Sanders, AOC or Warren involved, I won't be voting for Biden. I don't mind paying a little extra in taxes. But not what those people would want me to pay. I strongly disagree with that. I just don't believe in their excessive welfare and I don't want to pay for it. I'll never vote for anyone who supports that it's okay to sit on your ass and take tax money from people who work their asses off.

I'm certainly no elitist. I just don't want to pay your bills and I want to keep my money. I believe that is reasonable. Pay your own fucking bills like I do.

As I've said many times, Trump does let me keep my money. Whether you like him or not, he is more than fair about taxes so you can't take that away from him. He may not pay any taxes himself but fuck if I care if he has some good tax accountants; at least he doesn't really burden you about your taxes as well and that is fine by me because he pays it forward.

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

LOL, TWK. As I stated, Biden is not the answer. That dude probably won't even make it 2 years before something happens to him. He'll just get votes by default.

Make no mistake about it, but I read he had Sanders and AOC in his think tank. If, that's the case, I'm voting for Trump. I don't want either one of those two weird fuckers having anything to do with my taxes. I'd just quit my job with those two bozos once they make this country become a welfare state. I'm not paying for some motherfuckers' college tuition I don't even know. Thanks but no thanks with that proposal. That's just not going to happen. Sanders and AOC can be as crazy as they want to be, but you can only take so much craziness and then you just tap the fuck out.

LM - Biden has signed on to the radicals Soylent Green new Deal, and the other open borders and other Radical DPST nonsense - and has Beto as his 'gun Czar" - who made it clear he"Is coming for our guns"! Biden is already controlled by Bernie and AOC - the DNC gave in to Bernie's views to try to capture his voters - knowing Bernie is a staunch Communist totalitarian and unelectable in America.
Nuff said???


I am not a fan of Trump's management style - but what he does is far more consonant with my conservative stand on issues - than Biden and his DPST radical Communist proposals.

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by Kinkster90210

More name calling, mischaracterization of my politics, and projection of your own fears on to me.

Can you actually tell us what Trump's governing philosophy is? And "drain the swamp" isn't a governing philosophy.

Trump flies by the seat of his incompetent pants. I have no idea how will will react to any given crisis or how long it will be before he contradicts his earlier response to the crisis.

No - no name-calling, denial, deflection.

Your own posts show your hypocrisy.

Arrogant scatology and elitism toward any non-liberal lockstep DPST!!


From K - Now do Idaho. Idiot.


Christ, you write the most insane run-on sentences this side of UHB.

Do you really expect anyone to pick apart your semi-literate drivel?

Give it up, dickhead.

You and Waco are on drugs.



Ooohh, I see. So your whole idiotic argument is based on the bad assumption that we will be able to treat this next year better than we treat the flu.



Nob
So, if deaths double or triple, that's a victory? Wow.

And this ISN"T a competition with NY, idiot.ody is making any predictions. Doesn't anybody have any balls?


And - On and On it go's.

[rexdutchman]

Its like "peaceful protesters" when the cities are burning ( dumb question whats the end game , destroy everything and live like China ) ???????????????????

[Kinkster90210]

Originally Posted by oeb11

No - no name-calling, denial, deflection.

Your own posts show your hypocrisy.

Arrogant scatology and elitism toward any non-liberal lockstep DPST!!

From K - Now do Idaho. Idiot.

Christ, you write the most insane run-on sentences this side of UHB.

Do you really expect anyone to pick apart your semi-literate drivel?

Give it up, dickhead.

You and Waco are on drugs.

Ooohh, I see. So your whole idiotic argument is based on the bad assumption that we will be able to treat this next year better than we treat the flu.

Nob
So, if deaths double or triple, that's a victory? Wow.

And this ISN"T a competition with NY, idiot.ody is making any predictions. Doesn't anybody have any balls?

And - On and On it go's.

You just deflected AGAIN.

I know I called you well-deserved names in the previous posts. I'm not denying it, so you don't have to repost it.

But you do the same thing and pretend you aren't. Is this not name-calling:

Originally Posted by oeb11

Well K - You may represent yourself as a conservative - but you behave as entitled , elitist. obnoxious DPST Liberal.

[oeb11]

K - Show me where i called you any such names.

Nope. hasn't happened.

i will apologize if I did.



Whereas - K - as he puts it - is free to use name-calling as "well deserved' - In K's own mind.

In K's own elitist, self-entitled, arrogant obnoxious Liberal DPST mind.



It is called an "adjective" - if K is so sensitive .
I do not label people as idiots, or foul names - as does k above.

[SecretE]

Isn't the term "progressive conservatism" an oxymoron? Rather have a new label like "pragmatic" or "reasonable". Keep what works (in the real world), ditch what doesn't (in the real world).

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by Kinkster90210

Seriously? Are you following me around and policing my language?


Now that's funny coming from the guy policing my grammar.


How about YOU respond to my arguments that Trump isn't capable of forming a governing philosophy?



You presented no argument, you presented an opinion. My opinion is that he is capable but why take my word for it. Let's look at what a professional writer posted on the left wing media NBC. He probably won't have any run on sentences which you'll like.


https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...lli-ncna958866


By Keith Koffler


President Donald Trump has values and philosophy. It all has something to do with Alexander Hamilton.


Sounds crazy, right? But it's true. And Washington elites on both sides of the aisle are still, two years after the election, fatally underestimating the president and demonstrating contempt for his voters. Critics love to refer to him as a “transactional” president and insist his voters are rubes who fell for an alluring sales pitch. But Trump has strong ideas that he is hell-bent on fighting for, and his core supporters remain willing to ignore his various outrages. Indeed, they may very well head to the polls for him again in 2020.


Thus, Democrats who dismiss Trump as an empty suit do so at their own peril.


No, Trump might not be so read up on the philosophical basis of his own ideology. He is not perusing the works of John Locke, Edmund Burke or Friedrich Hayek between morning tweets. But he is also not simply channeling Machiavelli.


A certain amount of the Trump ideology, particularly in regards to trade, harkens back to what was once known as “Hamiltonian economics” or “The American System.” Alexander Hamilton believed that a degree of protectionism was vital to support America’s young manufacturing industry, which was imperiled at the time by the era’s international economic behemoth, Britain.


The American system, which continued well into the 20th century, emphasized tariffs to protect U.S. industry and fund the federal government. It also featured federal support for major infrastructure projects — another stated Trump priority.


Hamilton, wrote author William J. Gill, “understood that any nation that desires to remain politically independent must also protect its economic dependence and strive toward as much self-sufficiency as possible. The whole concept of nationhood rests upon this premise.”


“Make America Great Again” is not just a cynical slogan. It encapsulates Trump’s America-first ideology. Through instinct, experience and even some instruction, Trump has absorbed a populist worldview largely abandoned on the coasts but still embraced by many in middle America. It posits a unique American culture that is basically good — despite serious flaws — needs protection and, to the extent it evolves, must do so gradually so as not to lose its essence.


Once fully understood, the elements of a Trump ideology begin to fall into place. Immigration, particularly legal immigration, must have some limits so the culture isn’t altered so quickly that it becomes perverted into something else. Foreign military entanglements, alliances and participation in international treaties and organizations must be limited to prevent America from becoming too mixed up with, literally, foreign ideas.


American companies must be based at home to preserve their American character, while tariffs must protect them, in order to support the American middle class and workers.


None of this has to be nativist, racist or intolerant — though of course it can be. Being in favor of uniquely American values and taking the steps one feels are needed to protect them does not have to imply hatred of others.


One advisor who helped school Trump on some of these ideas was former White House chief strategist Steven Bannon, who first sat down with Trump to talk policy back in 2010 — when the real estate developer and reality TV star was considering challenging President Barack Obama in 2012.
But Trump, Bannon told me, had already formed much of this thinking on his own.


“Every one of these ideas were ideas he'd been talking about for 25 years,” Bannon said. “On trade, on China. On the military. Basically, he already had pretty well-formed his mind — already, it was America First.”


You may remember when Trump said: “We're spending billions of dollars. So what's happening? They don't contribute one penny of this defense." Or you may not. He said that in 1987 in New Hampshire, during a brief flirt with a presidential run. He was not talking about our allies in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Rather, he was referring to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.


Back then, Trump warned about our unfair trade nemesis in Asia. But it was not China. “We let Japan come in and dump everything into our markets,” he said on Oprah Winfrey’s show that year. “It’s not free trade.”


Bannon said, however, that Trump’s ideas on immigration and social issues were not quite as well formed.


Trump is now routinely referred to by pundits and news reporters alike as unprincipled, amoral, cynical, unethical, racist and anti-immigrant.
While the worst of these epithets are untrue, there’s no doubt the author of “The Art of the Deal” does not hesitate to bargain his way to a palatable, if imperfect, result. Trump is an opportunist, but it is his beliefs — and not a thirst for power — that drive him to remain steadfast and advance his agenda, even amid the incessant storm of criticism and derision he incurs from the establishment.

Now if you can find fault in that, you'll have an argument.

[friendly fred]

Originally Posted by Kinkster90210

More name calling, mischaracterization of my politics, and projection of your own fears on to me.

Can you actually tell us what Trump's governing philosophy is? And "drain the swamp" isn't a governing philosophy.

Trump flies by the seat of his incompetent pants. I have no idea how will will react to any given crisis or how long it will be before he contradicts his earlier response to the crisis.

If we could just replace him with another person pursuing his goals of fewer regulations, conservative SCOTUS appointments, support for police, and opposition to radical leftism, that would be one thing.

Biden stands with AOC and the squad, Bernie and Venezuela style socialism, and giving BLM control of the crime ridden big cities.

Is that what you want?

Slick Willie would be smart enough to privately tell BLM he will take care of them while in public he would say the leftism has gone too far.

Biden should try to look moderate or he will scare away voters.

[nevergaveitathought]

its America first - that's his philosophy

from fair trade to making partners carry their load to extracting soldiers from foreign entanglements to restoring manufacturing to building the economy to having control of the borders

all while actually loving America and its constitution and founding

the above is his philosophy and he hasn't wavered, I don't understand how anyone who claims to pay attention could wonder

he was met with treason by his opposition

he might be prolix and plain spoken and has uncultivated simplicity but at least you know where he stands unlike so many politicians and he has cowed the lying media

and america is fortunate to have had him win and for him to have been a fighter and protected it, especially in theses awful and perilous times where the very government itself was corrupted by obama and with leftists out to destroy it

[rexdutchman]

A Quote from L Leibovitz Ignore at your own peril: Just because Trump said it doesn't mean its not true"

Sadly people are ignoring the "forest for the trees " Political witch hunt started with drain the swamp"

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

its America first - that's his philosophy

from fair trade to making partners carry their load to extracting soldiers from foreign entanglements to restoring manufacturing to building the economy to having control of the borders

all while actually loving America and its constitution and founding

the above is his philosophy and he hasn't wavered, I don't understand how anyone who claims to pay attention could wonder

he was met with treason by his opposition

he might be prolix and plain spoken and has uncultivated simplicity but at least you know where he stands unlike so many politicians and he has cowed the lying media

and america is fortunate to have had him win and for him to have been a fighter and protected it, especially in theses awful and perilous times where the very government itself was corrupted by obama and with leftists out to destroy it

Kinkster is just another one of those with TDS, so filled with hate that he makes dumb statements from pure hate, never a wise thing to do. Just because you don't like someones philosophy, doesn't mean they don't have one.


I don't like Sanders and AOC's philosophy, but they have one and my disgust for both doesn't mean I can't see it and understand if not accept it.


And BTW, relaxing or removing sanctions when the offending party has done what you asked them to do, is a legitimate, time tested political maneuver that shows intelligence and courage, not weakness but again, when you hate someone that much, you are blinded by the hate. Don't make dumb statements because of it.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Kinkster is just another one of those with TDS, so filled with hate that he makes dumb statements from pure hate, never a wise thing to do. Just because you don't like someones philosophy, doesn't mean they don't have one.


I don't like Sanders and AOC's philosophy, but they have one and my disgust for both doesn't mean I can't see it and understand if not accept it.


And BTW, relaxing or removing sanctions when the offending party has done what you asked them to do, is a legitimate, time tested political maneuver that shows intelligence and courage, not weakness but again, when you hate someone that much, you are blinded by the hate. Don't make dumb statements because of it.

it seems the people who would vote dimocrat can recognize neither President Trump's philosophy nor the increasingly anti-American slide of the philosophy of their own party

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

it seems the people who would vote dimocrat can recognize neither President Trump's philosophy nor the increasingly anti-American slide of the philosophy of their own party

Exactly.



I see some Black people are waking up and speaking out. While the leaders of BLM, proud Marxist and a bunch of their most loyal are indeed involved in the kind of violence we see in Portland, the majority are died in the wool anarchist which are mostly White and some "normal" Whites are starting to blame all this violence on all Blacks.


What we are seeing now has absolutely nothing to do with the death of George Floyd and certainly not the deaths of Black children in Chicago. That "movement" has been cooped-ed by the anarchist and yes, to be sure, the hard core Marxist of BLM.


And while these Democrats like Biden, Pelosi, Shumer can say they don't support the violence, actually they don't say any such thing because they are essentially ignoring it, these Mayor's are now saying they do support the "protestors" which of course they are not, they are rioters. If you don't speak out against riots, you are complicit in riots.


I know it is hard to do but watch a couple of hours of MSNBC and you will be stunned at what you see and hear. "Gestapo", "Storm Troopers", "Secret Police".


I can guarantee you that every single person hauled off those streets will be either safely released after questioning, not locked away, unaccounted for in detention camps or they will be arrested, provided a lawyer and will have their day in court.


Right now, the Leftist MSM are trying to convince Americans that we have become a police state. That the police are the problem not the rioters and if the police would just all go home, this would all be over with and some people on the left actually believe that.


Did you see what happened to the Mayor of Portland, the guy who is every day telling the rioters he is with them? He went down into the mob to show his support and they cursed him, spit at him, called him Hitler and demanded he resign his office and this guy supports them!


These people don't want anybody in charge. All officials be they Democrat or Republican, must go. Strip it all down, burn it down to the ground and start over they chant.


Don't say you weren't warned Democrats. You have sat back and watched this monster get it's legs and the election of Biden isn't going to sooth the savage beast.


The mob also surrounded the home of Mayor Lightfoot in Chicago making demands of her and she gave into the mob.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Exactly.

I know it is hard to do but watch a couple of hours of MSNBC and you will be stunned at what you see and hear. "Gestapo", "Storm Troopers", "Secret Police".


I can guarantee you that every single person hauled off those streets will be either safely released after questioning, not locked away

Right now, the Leftist MSM are trying to convince Americans that we have become a police state.

the election of Biden isn't going to sooth the savage beast.

The only presidents who have interned American people without trial have been dimocrats

and the election of biden would only give license to beasts, the cancel culture would cancel the dodderer with winks , nods and venom