Bye Bye Venezuela Dictator

[RX792P]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Not at all. Both missions (OBL and Maduro) were highly complex military operations executed by Special Op forces. Both put a premium on secrecy in order to succeed. Afterwards, Obama dismissed suggestions that he should have tipped off allies about the OBL raid. It is similarly absurd to suggest Trump should have enlisted the support of our allies to extract and bring Maduro to justice. Doing so would have jeopardized the mission's chances for success.

Our European allies have no interest in helping us clean up our own backyard anyway. They have nothing to bring to the table here, and nothing to gain. As for our Latin American allies, I am certain some of them will be deeply involved, under Marco Rubio's guidance, in helping to stabilize Venezuela going forward.

Nothing on the table?
Venezuela sells significant oil to Europe, particularly Spain (like Repsol) and Italy (like Eni), especially to replace Russian crude, though China and the US are primary buyers; exports have seen fluctuations due to U.S. sanctions but increased recently, with Europe taking about 70% of its imports from Venezuela in 2024, primarily for refining into fuel.

The EU is Venezuela's third-largest trading partner, with major EU imports from Venezuela being oil, fish (shrimp), and metals, while EU exports include machinery and chemicals.

[Budman]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

... I counted twice.

Damn I'm impressed. I din't think you could count that high. Just proves you made it thru preschool. Congrats.

[lustylad]

Didn't our previous border czar Kamala Harris tell us in order to stop the flood of illegals from coming in, we needed to address the "root causes" of their migration?

Nicolas Maduro was a "root cause"!!

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Didn't our previous border czar Kamala Harris tell us in order to stop the flood of illegals from coming in, we needed to address the "root causes" of their migration?

Nicolas Maduro was a "root cause"!!

uh, no..

[biomed1]

Of the Following . . .

The following is not permitted on the site:

Insulting Others
Targeting other members for attacks
Harassing other members, groups of members, class of members, etc
Disrespecting other members on the site
General rudeness toward other members on the site

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Was Obama wrong to have acted unilaterally when he ordered the 2010 Abbottabad mission to kill Osama bin Laden? Should he instead have put together an international Special Ops group with our allies? Would that have raised or lowered the mission's chance of success?

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

No, txdot is spot on and you're just What Abouting it.

Apples and oranges, as you know. Unless you're deluded enough to claim that the strike against Bin Laden was the same as the campaign against Maduro.

Trump's action signals to the world that he's not to be trusted, which all of us already knew, even you.

Long way out of that corner, bud.

More like a wrench and oranges. Not even similar at all.

The point that I was trying to make and everyone seems to be missing is this.

What gives the President the right to unilaterally decide to use American troops and other military forces to overthrow the government of a foreign country?

In the past we at least confirmed with our allies who are enemies were and a consensus was reached between our allies and congress before action was taken.

What’s going to keep Trump from a campaign of military intervention in any circumstance that he might feel slighted by or perceived by him to be against America?

Declaring the use of military force should be decided by congress unless an emergency requires it. Changing the government in Venezuela was not an emergency action.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

this is America First by textbook definition. Maduro has already been indicted in 2020 by the DOJ there was never any way he would come to the US voluntarily to face the indictment so Trump got him.


let's not forget the fact that most nations not just the US consider his election as rigged to succeed Chávez after his death.


expect the usual suspects to claim the "illegal war without Congress's approval".


this isn't a war and Congress can scream all day claiming this. it was an arrest.

Wasn't there a whiny orange man-baby who pouted and held his breath until he turned blue stating *policy* that a sitting leader could not be prosecuted?

And didn't said man-baby whine all about the Big Steal which has been proven dozens of times to be false and a feeble attempt to usurp power for himself?

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

This is the story of a brutal, lying, election-fraudster who oppressed his nation for his own personal gain ….

And Maduro.

Let’s see what Congress has to say bout this unilateral incursion into a foreign nation with whom we are not at war.

I think Maduro needed to go, but why is it our fucking job to attack Venezuela with ground forces (Trump already lied about this) and captured its head of government.

How is this legal? Shirley they weren’t just running a warrant from 2020.

BIG QUESTION - Will the US now go after ALL brutal dictators or anybody the Trump administration considours a dictator? Like Ergodan? Or … PUTIN?

And awayyyyy we go.

SMMFH

*I* don't trust ANYTHING coming from the current DOJ while they are frenching the prostate of the orange toad-in-chief. If there was an international court putting an order to appear at the Hague, i'd be alot more receptive to it.

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

The presser/explanation is every bit as authoritarian as you might have guessed. And stupider than you can imagine.

Trump is stealing their oil and taking over the country.

And whining about Biden and Carter.

And jerking himself off.

Period.

The fog of war is clearing pretty fast. Thanks to donny. Why would a supposed "serving out the warrant" have anything to do with out right statement of taking over their oil industry? Grifter-in-chief is in full stuffing his pockets mode.

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

I didn't know it was America's job to police countries and jack their oil and claim ownership of it.

Trump and his administration full of incompetent idiots can't even fulfil his many campaign promises in his own country. Why is he taking control of another country? Was that one of his campaign promises or is that just "the Trump weave"? I must admit that I am no expert so can some brilliant MAGA please explain to me how this coup is even legal? Are we Russia now and Venezuela is our new lame ass and much weaker version of Ukraine?

Didn't the melange one say he ain't about nation building? Also constantly complaining about not getting a Peace prize?

If he REALLY wanted to do the right thing, he'd have had putin in irons and sent directly to the Hague. But he has long ago proven he has no balls. *THAT* action would have a direct affect on a helluvalot more people than acting out as a tin horn dictator inflicting his corrupt will outside of our borders.

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

As one might imagine, Trump and his toadies are already taking about CUBA.

The bodies haven't yet been counted in Caracas. Or mentioned, btw

Trump DID, however, appear to nod off while others were handling the "hardball" questions lobbed by the media. I counted twice.

I pray that no troops died. And also the collateral damage was light to non-existent. If innocent people died, I would like the maggies of this border who cried their tears for those that they claimed were innocent under joeys tenure to be the loudest ones screaming for the potus blood like they did before.

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Is anyone here concerned about the message we’re sending to the world? Trump’s overthrow of the Venezuelan government doesn’t appear to be any different than Putin’s attempt to control Ukraine, or China’s attempts to control Taiwan or Tibet.

The Trump administration has thrown out 75 years of the rule of law and world order and moved us back to the days when governments would create spheres of colonialist power.

I fear that this new foreign policy of the Trump administration will lead to more armed conflict not less.

The message he is sending is that he wants to be part of the dictator club. Except he is treated like the red headed step child and they won't let him in. So, he has to pick on someone so small that he feels it will make his wishbone chest feathers plume out.

Originally Posted by lustylad

It's completely different. The governments of Ukraine and Taiwan were installed in free & fair elections. They are legitimate. Maduro rigged and stole multiple elections in Venezuela. He is completely illegitimate. And that's not just my opinion. It's the view of the European Union and 50+ countries that refuse to recognize Maduro's regime. For that matter, it was also the view of the Biden Administration.
...

It ain't our job to physically take a hand in changing the guy. If you really feel that way, there are alot more charges hanging on putins neck. Why didn't we send him to international court when the brilliant opportunity occurred?

Regime change should be left up to the citizens. We've done it. Odds are that it fails. Best to let the people of said country do it. And offer them help other than our own armed forces doing the work.

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Except Cuba has nothing, except beaches and numerous hotels that need to be rebuilt.

Don't forget those big booty cubanas.

Originally Posted by lustylad

Didn't our previous border czar Kamala Harris tell us in order to stop the flood of illegals from coming in, we needed to address the "root causes" of their migration?

Nicolas Maduro was a "root cause"!!

How was he a "root cause"?

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Didn't our previous border czar Kamala Harris tell us in order to stop the flood of illegals from coming in, we needed to address the "root causes" of their migration?

Nicolas Maduro was a "root cause"!!

Originally Posted by Precious_b

How was he a "root cause"?

Are you serious? Do I really have to explain it?

You're like the guy who interjects "Wait, I don't get it?" while everyone else is laughing heartily at the punchline!

Do you have a trusty AI research assistant? If not, I suggest you get one. Here's what mine reported back to me when I asked the simple question "How many Venezuelans fled the country under Maduro?"


"Approximately 8 million Venezuelans have fled the country during Nicolás Maduro's presidency. This mass migration, primarily driven by a severe economic and humanitarian crisis, is considered the largest displacement crisis in recent Latin American history.

Scale: The number of people who have left represents roughly 20 to 25 percent of the nation's population.

Global Context: The crisis is one of the largest international displacement crises in the world, comparable to the Syrian refugee crisis in scale."

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Are you serious? Do I really have to explain it?

You're like the guy who interjects "Wait, I don't get it?" while everyone else is laughing heartily at the punchline!

Glad to bring comic relief. We need it here. You're welcome. No need to thank me.

Do you have a trusty AI research assistant? We're allowed assistance here? Do you have one? If not, I suggest you get one. Got the number for yours? Here's what mine reported back to me when I asked the simple question "How many Venezuelans fled the country under Maduro?"


"Approximately 8 million Venezuelans have fled the country during Nicolás Maduro's presidency. This mass migration, primarily driven by a severe economic and humanitarian crisis, is considered the largest displacement crisis in recent Latin American history.

Scale: The number of people who have left represents roughly 20 to 25 percent of the nation's population.

Global Context: The crisis is one of the largest international displacement crises in the world, comparable to the Syrian refugee crisis in scale."

Thanks. So, by your standards, if people are leaving a country because of who is leading, they deserve to be invaded.

By that standard, why didn't donny do this to the world pariah, wanted by international courts of law, putin? He surely would have a bigger affect to 100 million plus people around him that he is threatening with his current actions.

And *THANK YOU* for responding the way you did in taking the bait about numbers.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

The point that I was trying to make and everyone seems to be missing is this.

What gives the President the right to unilaterally decide to use American troops and other military forces to overthrow the illegitimate government of a foreign country whose narco-terrorist leader is profiting from the deaths of thousands of Americans each year by shipping (forbidden topic) to our shores?

FTFY. You evaded my points too.

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

What’s going to keep Trump from a campaign of military intervention in any circumstance that he might feel slighted by or perceived by him to be against America?

Calm down. The so-called MAGA base is suspicious of and opposed to costly foreign interventions and "forever wars". Marco Rubio is sensible and competent and has the President's ear. I know you're stuck on the narrative of Trumpy as an ego-driven maniac, but this wasn't even an invasion... it was a flawlessly executed extrication of a murderous thug to face US justice for his crimes.

[Salty Again]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Out of the stolen oil?

Only THEN will he heap riches on the Venezuelan people.

Didn't Mexico also nationalize their oil industry??? I'm pretty sure it did.

Is Trump going to invade Mexico to sieze PeMex?

Fucking lunatic.

... This is a WIN/Win for both America and Venezuela!

Making America GREAT Again! ...

#### Salty

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

Thanks. So, by your standards, if people are leaving a country because of who is leading, they deserve to be invaded.

How else are we supposed to tackle those pesky "root causes"? I mean, what would Kamala do? You don't suppose she was just pretending to be Border Czar and didn't want to take any real, meaningful actions to stem the inflow of illegals, do you? Looks like Donny takes the job more seriously!

Again, this wasn't an "invasion". Trump just showed everyone it's possible to cut off the head of the snake without putting thousands of permanent "boots on the ground".

[Salty Again]

Originally Posted by lustylad

How else are we supposed to tackle those pesky "root causes"? I mean, what would Kamala do? You don't suppose she was just pretending to be Border Czar and didn't want to take any meaningful actions to stem the inflow of illegals, do you? Looks like Donny takes the job more seriously!

Again, this wasn't an "invasion". Trump just showed everyone it's possible to cut off the head of the snake without putting thousands of permanent "boots on the ground".

... As Lusty is pointing out here - do you lads REALLY
believe that President Trump was "acting alone" with this??

No doubt the lot of South American nations wanted
Maduro gone!

#### Salty

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by lustylad

How else are we supposed to tackle those pesky "root causes"? I mean, what would Kamala do? You don't suppose she was just pretending to be Border Czar and didn't really want to take any actions to stem the inflow of illegals, do you? Looks like Donny takes the job more seriously!

Again, this wasn't an invasion. Trump just showed everyone it's possible to cut off the head of the snake without putting thousands of permanent "boots on the ground".

Well, why not get to the big root cause I mentioned? That'd make the little wah wah guy look good and possibly be taken more seriously by others. I don't care about Kamala since she ain't in any position in DC that I know of. (I'll let your AI assistant check that out for me.)

I don't care what you want to call it. I already stated my position on it. (you better get on that AI guy of yours since you missed it by 'splaining it to me.J) The only thing donny showed was that you could bypass putting boots there by other means, WHICH I have stated. I'll let you get your $$$$ worth out of that AI guy that ain't doing his/her job. But i'll list the affects of those means:

No loss of lives.
No <insert whatever term used to describe having military take action in another country >
Gets to that ABSOLUTE root of problem that was used as excuse
And to me, THE BEST ONE, Has long term benefits that is the best return on cheap investment required

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

The point that I was trying to make and everyone seems to be missing is this.

What gives the President the right to unilaterally decide to use American troops and other military forces to overthrow the illegitimate government of a foreign country whose narco-terrorist leader is profiting from the deaths of thousands of Americans each year by shipping (forbidden topic) to our shores?

Fine, Then answer the question you posed.

What gives the President the right to unilaterally decide to use American troops and other military forces to overthrow the illegitimate government of a foreign country whose narco-terrorist leader is profiting from the deaths of thousands of Americans each year by shipping (forbidden topic) to our shores?

I don’t believe that the President has the constitutional authority to essentially declare war upon a foreign power whether or not he or she believes that foreign power is legitimate or not!

Try reading up on the war powers resolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution