Hagglers - what is it they really want?

[Wakeup]

Originally Posted by siberia

Coming from a guy with
(Cough) 4 reviews. Surreee.

Even MOST of the high dollar ladies have 1/2 hr sessions. The reviews
will soon tell.IJS
Patient grasshopper.

The number of reviews I have is irrelevant...the other thing that is irrelevant is the amount of comments new providers get in the Welcome Wagon concerning their rates. Providers will tell you that the people who actually post on this board make up only a minority of their business...and they're still paying to see them...

[Camille Fox]

^^ in fact, I would argue that the more ppl post on their WW ads, the more appts they get. Positive or negative.

[dearhunter]

Retards who reinvent themselves and carry on crack me up.........ijs

[Johanna]

Originally Posted by H.Hardhat

And in a PM I told her to look at the other ads and see what the going rate was. If you've observed a lot of the WW ads the guys will comment a lot on the prices the new providers are asking. I believe my advise was not without merit, but also told the young lady to do her research. I'd just hate for her to make the trip and be disappointed by her reception. Check the ad, she appreciated my comment... more than you did btw

There is no thing wrong with being on the upper end of the scale. No matter what your price is, there will always be someone out there for whom you are just what they are looking for and can afford you. Maybe you guys think that us ladies that charge more than 250 have a hard time finding clients but believe me, we don't. The difference is that the clients that are willing and able to pay that amount with no whining usually have a different approach to the hobby, and probably have no time or interest in writing reviews. I have always charged 350, and even when I had no reviews I have never had a shortage of clients (1-2 clients a day is my usual, and I am very happy with that). Having said that, why would we adjust our price when really we have no need to? Why go to the Gucci store and try to pay Michael Kors' prices, why not just shop at MK?

It's funny, this morning I woke up to yet another haggler trying to see me for 20 min for 200... Smh. I kindly directed him to this thread.

[dearhunter]

Bitches need to give the shit away and shut up the whiny naggers..........ijs

[Fancyinheels]

Originally Posted by RandB fan

IYNHO=IN YOUR NONE HUMBLE OPINION

I should have spelled it out once. my apology.


In this case fancy is trying to defend her rates yet I can't find anyone who has paid them, not here and not published on her own web site. Both her profile and web site states $250 an hour yet There is not a single review, that I have seen, that reflects that amount. These are the newest (cough) from her web site. I assume it has not been updated for some time but does include several from 2013 and 2014.I didn't see one review posted on her where the monger paid her posted rate including first time mongers who got a better rate than $250 she so vigilantly defended as non negotiable calling out those who did so. This is a list of rates/ durations from her reviews, that she published, and as you can see they are all discounted from her stated rate and lots of specials are noted.

Date: Feb . '14 Session Length: 1 hour. Fee: $200.
Cost of service: 2 hours $300...
Session Length: 1 Hour. Fee: $150.00 Special.
Session Length: 30 min. Fee: $100.
Session Length: 2 hours. Fee: $300
Session Length: 3 hrs. Fee: $350 (ECCIE-only member special)
Session Length: 3 hrs. Fee: $400.
Session Length: 2 hr. Fee: $240 special
Session Length: 1 hr. (Went over.) Fee: $200
Session Length: 2 hrs. Fee: $300.
Session Length: 3 hrs. Fee: $400
5 hours....$500 + groceries
Session Length: 1 hour. Fee: $150 special
3 hours for $300

I am sorry, no I am not, but when someone goes on a rant because someone asked if terms were negotiable (AKA HAGGLE) yet she has ZERO reviews for her full rate it is hypocritical. I feel she should redact her comments and come to an understanding that if you publish accepted rates that are far lower than your stated rate it then becomes an asking rate and open for discussion AKA Haggling.

You think I was ranting? Wait until I am actually MAD.

Wow, you surely must be bored to go to so much effort just to fuss with ME.

I wasn't ranting, my dear, just making some points that reflect upon the experience of many ladies in my usual rather facetious manner. I wasn't defending MY rates in any way. Did I even bring them up in the post? Nope, so I fail to see the necessity of the above.

You'll note, if you did all this research, that I have reviews on MANY websites. (Surely you don't think that all of the gentlemen who visit me are just on ECCIE?) And by the way, most fellows I see, most fellows ANY provider sees, do not review. However, if we must debate MY rates, I just RECENTLY standardized them between all the various sites I advertise on to match my website. (Which has always been considerably higher,) That seemed to be a common note of confusion, different rates on different websites, so I made everything simple. You'll even find some ECCIE posts where I warned people that I was doing it, and noted it in my showcase for a while. (You spent a lot of time looking at my rates in reviews, but evidently not much noticing that they changed not long ago.) Until then, I did ask ECCIE members for $200/hour, $300/3 hrs, and so on. I do run specials, I reward those who have been coming to see me for quite some time, and I will make amends when I have to cancel or reschedule due to circumstances beyond my control by giving a fellow a break. Which providers give discounts when they reschedule? The nice ladies, but they are not numerous.

Plenty of non-ECCIE members have paid my full rate. Do not use a few reviews to represent my entire clientele. I've been giving ECCIE fellows a break for years, and still do because I frequently run specials here that I do not advertise anywhere else because I believe that membership should have its privileges. My reviews will probably always represent rates lower than what the public pays me, as most gents contacting me from other sites are not "true" Hobbyists. You know, I run enough specials here (as evidenced by your above research) that HECK YES, I still find haggling offensive, especially since it is frequently done by a newbie who has not been screened, has no refs, and yet wants at least a $50 break when he has done nothing to merit one. Not supposed to talk about money up front, remember? Red Flag?

Stop making it personal. I wasn't. I was making generalized comments, with a couple of lighthearted responses to citizen44 and 4karlos. I stand by the fact that I am probably one of the least hypocritical ladies on ECCIE, although I have been known to stick my pretty high heeled foot in my big, lipstick-embellished mouth occasionally.

[4karlos]

Yes. Quick example: I negotiated with the Capital Grille for a private room party of 14 just a few days ago.

No. I did not "Jew" the dentist. I negotiated and she was more than pleased to do so. You think the dentists don't negotiate the price for the equipment and services they buy, the rent, the staff salaries... etc?

You should not mix negotiation with being cheap. You can negotiate, and still be classy, have a great time and tip whenever is expected/deserved. No matter what, if you have an opportunity for a better deal...why settling for less? Just because "some" people get offended?

If my clients were like that, it would be awesome...but that would be a questionable expectation way too distanced from reality.

Originally Posted by Russ38

Nothing wrong with taking advantage of a good deal when it's offered to you but.....

Does this tactic work when you eat at a favorite restaurant but don't want to pay full menu price because you've eaten there before?......If it does work....do you really want to eat the meal from the chef whom you just told his food isn't worth what he charges?....you might get an extra ingredient or two....ijs


Oh almost forgot.....you Jew down your kids dentist?

[Fancyinheels]

Originally Posted by RandB fan

YOU SEEM TO BE ON YOUR SOAP BOX AND AFTER BEING MARRIED TO A REDHEAD FOR 18 YEARS I know a little about redheaded mentality especially when they make a Dennis Miller rant look like a leisurely walk on a spring day. I feel that you need to go sit on a couch with a person with a notebook asking you questions. Your glass has a fucking hole in the bottom and it appears from what you are saying you really do think that you run a Domino's pizza or a dollar store, someplace where price is not able to be changed. I do not haggle, act superior, or say demeaning things if someone does not want to "Haggle" I just ask if they are motivated to make a sale today or take their chances that I will not buy it elsewhere. Apparently you are not willing to stake your claim to the business by reducing you donation and therefor sending your potential customer into your competitors bed, counter, floor or sofa assuring yourself that you will never have the chance to make them your valued customer. I personally look at the numbers, justify my worth, put value in my professionalism and make a modest adjustment to price, I have a dollar amount I will not go under but i will surcome to doing business at the lowest acceptable margin so that I A: don't let that work go to my competition and B: Put that money in the general fund and create cash flow so I can pay my bills. Unlike you I have capital equipment that has to be paid for or it goes away.


Anyone who has owned a business will attest to volatility of your
or any small enterprise. When my business falters due to the economy, the entry of new competition, or poor performance, they are forced to make adjustments sometimes on a daily, weekly or monthly basis to keep the doors open. When business slows I do not get paid I actually have to bunker down and work harder, smarter, longer and for less. but when the bills all get paid I hope that I show a 15% ROA and can take my paycheck and depsit it instead of leaving that money to pay bills that were unpaid.
You run specials, not for your customers but to raise capital to pay the bills, but are unwilling to say the fact that business is slow, your John count is low and you can't cut your monthly nut. I do comment your efforts toward animal rescue food donations and thought your specials were fantastic marketing. Everyone should do something for the good of humanity even if it is to feed the dogs and cats. I am joking I am an animal lover even though I am a dog person. I am sure your marketing efforts were a hit especially when it benefited both your customers and yourself along with the animals. I am sure that that special did wonders for how you are envisioned by existing and potential customers who took advantage and surely some that didn't. But you probably shot yourself in the foot by showing us that you feel we are walking ATMs


Now back on track.
You state low to middle class. I call bunk lets look at a service business similar to yours which offers services but no actual tangible product.
I see it this way every time $20-$40 discount on a 250 service. The bank is an average of $220 dollars if I do that 10 times a week for 40 weeks a year it would gross $88K. Add the regulars, maybe 10 a month at a full $250 an hour then the gross is an addl $30K equaling $118K. that is 11 customers a week or 22 hours if you include time for posting ads, showering, putting your costume on, your make up, changing the sheets and even washing them into the equation seeing you should be able to do so in 11 hours. So you could have made another $12K but I would not have had the volume. but if you "service" 5 less customers a month because you don't "haggle" you loose $15K grossing $85K plus your regulars making it $120K. If you accept to reduce your service charges to $220 for those 5 customers a month you now have an addl. $13K + making your income $133K. and that extra money comes in at less expense per ticker making them more profitable on the P+L sheet
Accepting fair offers allows you to build the reserves needed to weather the fluctuations AKA sick pay. Investing that 13K into a average mutual fund ( I used one of mine that had a 10 year return of 7.9% would net a total of just over $200K. I do not understand why you are against offering a reduced rate vs refusing the business.
You are not anywhere near the lower class as it caps at $60K and your over double working 22 hours a week. I know you have expenses but how you do that and how you control those have nothing to do with what you gross it affects you net. I have never seen a financial statement for an escort but I am guessing about 25% even for a ultra low provider (lower as volume increases) netting you over 100K a year for yes I said it again a part time job.

I believe this is well into the upper middle class when adjusted for your industries reputation for having extremely low tax rates anything over $60K is middle class (mid middle class is $40K)

I am just too tired to respond to this at length, and your attitude is too ridiculous. "But you probably shot yourself in the foot by showing us that you feel we are walking ATMs." I seriously doubt anybody here thinks I was referring to them as a soulless machine dispensing currency.

FYI, the majority of providers are not doing anywhere near the volume that you think they are. By no means am I speaking for every provider, and, of course, anything anybody writes here is "IMNHO." (Leaping leprechauns, NONE of us are humble, except, maybe, pyramider and his 1.3 inches of dangling death.) I communicate with many ladies and I know a wee bit about what is representative in my field of expertise in this city, and this locale is the only one I am considering. I don't run my biz like Domino's, but maybe I should. I NEVER said that prices aren't malleable, but please, put words in my mouth. You evidently have a degree in upper finance and I am a lowly uneducated provider who knows nothing about profit and loss margins, competitive market strategy, business plans, goal management, cash flow, blah, blah, blah. "Unlike you I have capital equipment that has to be paid for or it goes away." You think I don't? Have you seen my incall?

I'm just not going to argue with you on how YOU think I am doing. I am an old, fat broad who, somehow, still seems to be hanging in as a companion (her ONLY source of income, amazingly) after nearly 8 years and despite a few more pounds and new wrinkles. Believe me, I AM GRATEFUL. I surely realize that plenty of clients choose to spend their money elsewhere, and that's lovely. Free enterprise is beautiful.

As far as economics go, price fluctuations in any market are recurrent, but an environment where services are consistently undervalued, where underpricing is rampant, can actually undermine the fiscal structure overall. Look at the current bottom barrel cost of gas; we are enjoying it, but if it persists, down the line people will lose jobs, homes, the flow of goods drops... the flow of fluids between gents and providers is certainly suffering, but undercutting prices to make ends meet for a moment guarantees a hard battle to raise them again to normal levels after after things improve, and like you said, it is a precedent that just slashes one's own wallet. I suppose I should take your advice to heart and cease offering so many breaks to ECCIE gents. Sorry, guys, but he said it.

Oh, um, about this: "YOU SEEM TO BE ON YOUR SOAP BOX AND AFTER BEING MARRIED TO A REDHEAD FOR 18 YEARS I know a little about redheaded mentality..." I think you pissed every redhead off on the board with that stereotyping. Way to go.

[Grace Preston]

From the cheap seats here....

Let me just say that I feel a lot of ladies tie way too much of their self worth into what someone is willing to pay for their time. My self worth comes from many things... my vagina is way on down the list. If a gent makes me an offer that I have to refuse, then that isn't a reflection on my worth as a human.. it is a reflection of what the gent is either willing (or able) to pay. Plain, simple, not worth fussing about.

People get too tied up in emotion with this business. At the end of the day, we are still a commodity. A luxury commodity, sure... but still a commodity. My rates change drastically based on what part of the country I am in. I can easily get away with a 300-350 rate in Boston. But if I attempted that in Dallas with what I'm working with... times would be super lean. It is a market based industry. And I've also never had a problem with negotiating special deals for returning friends. I'd rather have a solid handful of loyal returning gents than have to spend a lot of time advertising and screening for new ones. To me... its worth 20-40 bucks to have that level of customer loyalty.

[Fancyinheels]

Originally Posted by GracePreston

From the cheap seats here....

Let me just say that I feel a lot of ladies tie way too much of their self worth into what someone is willing to pay for their time. My self worth comes from many things... my vagina is way on down the list. If a gent makes me an offer that I have to refuse, then that isn't a reflection on my worth as a human.. it is a reflection of what the gent is either willing (or able) to pay. Plain, simple, not worth fussing about.

People get too tied up in emotion with this business. At the end of the day, we are still a commodity. A luxury commodity, sure... but still a commodity. My rates change drastically based on what part of the country I am in. I can easily get away with a 300-350 rate in Boston. But if I attempted that in Dallas with what I'm working with... times would be super lean. It is a market based industry. And I've also never had a problem with negotiating special deals for returning friends. I'd rather have a solid handful of loyal returning gents than have to spend a lot of time advertising and screening for new ones. To me... its worth 20-40 bucks to have that level of customer loyalty.

[Wakeup]

Originally Posted by GracePreston

It is a market based industry.

Incorrect...very little about anything a hooker does conforms to any economic theories...foremost being the rate she charges...

[Grace Preston]

Originally Posted by Wakeup

Incorrect...very little about anything a hooker does conforms to any economic theories...foremost being the rate she charges...

I disagree. The rate one charges and the rate one is able to get are not necessarily the same. It is VERY market based. I can get away with higher rates in some places, whereas in other places, I am much less expensive. When I say market based.. I don't mean as indexed by the economy-- I mean more along the lines of local markets. Going rates in Chicago and Boston are much different than Dallas and Houston.

When I go somewhere... I take a look at the local market. What are the average rates? How many ladies are in my general size and service category? Do I stand out in any way compared to what is already available in the market? I don't sit there and say "Well I get 350 in Boston so PHOOEY on anyone in Dallas who won't pay that because I AM WORTH IT". That logic is faulty at its very core.

[Fancyinheels]

Getting back to what hagglers (negotiators when they are polite) want, seems we have learned that there are 6 different types who may parry price:

1. Gents on a budget looking for deals.
2. Guys who are just plain cheap for the halibut.
3. Fellows from cultures where it is socially expected.
4. Regulars who expect/earn discounts.
5. Manipulators who haggle for fun, aka "control freaks."
6. Guys who think they are such a privilege to f*** that providers should give them a discount, aka the "crazy ones."

Any other clear distinctions?

[Johanna]

Guys who insist on seeing upper-scale providers but want to pay "market rate" - a bit of Platinum Penis Syndrome if you ask me... Or would that fall under option 6 in Your scale, Fancy?

[siberia]

Originally Posted by Eva Damita

I'm starting to see a pattern of disdain for providers you consider high dollar in your replies on the board ...as your reply had nothing to do with haggling and the convo on whether a lady with a $400 rate can do well and prosper. Instead, you saw an opportunity to take a shot on whether HDH have 30 minute sessions or not...it's like you're on a crusade to change the HDH profile...from the BNG thread all the way to this one.

If you're gathering your "Even most high dollar ladies have 1/2 hr sessions" info from the board, A) ECCIE is not a source for HDH, and B) HDH typically aren't into many reviews or review boards PERIOD. So to me, with the oxymoronic statement above, you're coming off as a tad bitter instead of factual.

I'm not a HDH (in my opinion) but I certainly can identify that half hours are NOT offered by MOST high dollar hotties.

What's really goin' on? Just trying to understand. . .

Show me proof of disdain, one thread on BNG about most girls eventually run specials because I have seen it.
Why take my general observations and direct at yourself?
My viewpoints can be different and i have escort friends that range in every bracket. I don't need a translator by any means. Take it any way you want and agree to disagree.
I don't have to take a persons every written word and convert into something cynical, have positive things to do. Following my every move must have you busy. Business slow?
My response was toward a hobbyist
stating some facts. I wasn't directing
it at a escort.
Continue to let me get under your skin. Haha